Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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9. To ask the Minister for Environment, Community and Local Government if his Department or Irish Water is responsible for managing storm water run-off countrywide; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [18305/16]

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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18. To ask the Minister for Environment, Community and Local Government the amount of funding allocated, if any, to local authorities to deal with storm water run-off; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [18306/16]

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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When the Government established a national entity called "Irish Water", why did it decide not to give it responsibility for storm water? What is the logic behind leaving that element with the local authorities while removing the more attractive elements from them?

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I see the Deputy has been enjoying his time in France.

Eugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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I was going to suggest he could do with a glass of water.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Members will be relieved to hear that I enjoy myself all the time.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I believe that. I do not take much convincing.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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Deputy Mick Wallace must have received the award from the Parisian Government.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 9 and 18 together.

The Water Services (No. 2) Act 2013 provides for the transfer of water services functions, with some exceptions, of the city and county councils to Irish Water. The provision, operation and maintenance of sewers other than storm water sewers are among the functions transferred to Irish Water. However, the operation and maintenance of storm water sewers remain functions of the local authorities.

There is no funding stream available from my Department to local authorities for funding storm water services. However, under the Planning and Development Act 2000, as amended, income from development levies must be ring-fenced to pay for facilities servicing new developments. Local authorities fund the provision and maintenance of storm water sewers through moneys received from such development contributions. Any issue arising in respect of individual developments should, therefore, be pursued with the relevant local authorities.

I expect that this was a practical response to the fact that responsibility for the planning and building of developments and the run-off water infrastructure linked with same which is financed by the development charges applied to these developments remained with local authorities instead of being moved to a separate structure.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Since storm water management is unpredictable and difficult to cost, I understand it is not an attractive element of the water industry. I suspect one of the main reasons Irish Water was not given responsibility for the management of storm water was it would not have been attractive to anyone with notions of buying Irish Water were it ever to be privatised. People do not like to buy things that are difficult to measure.

In fact, it does not make much sense not to have all the elements of water under the one roof. It is unfair to expect local authorities to fund something when they are poorly resourced to do so. It is so unpredictable.

Given that local authorities no longer have responsibility for the supply of water or for sewerage, there will be a the huge decrease in the number of people working in local authorities who are involved with water, yet the local authorities will have to be able to respond to problems that arise unpredictably. That is surely not sustainable.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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While the responsibility for storm sewers remains with local authorities, responsibility for combined sewers, which carry both foul sewage and storm water, has been transferred to Irish Water. A memorandum of understanding to establish principles and mechanisms through which Irish Water and each local authority will co-operate with respect to sewer flooding and storm water management is being developed. I understand this document is close to being finalised and signed off with each local authority. Most local authorities have a storm water management policy that encourages the use of sustainable drainage systems in all new developments.

The management of flooding, which is often a consequence of not having the right infrastructure in place, is very much the responsibility of local authorities, which work with the Office of Public Works, OPW, on some of the bigger projects. Therefore, there is a carryover across multiple organisations, from Irish Water to local authorities and to the OPW in the case of some bigger projects. What is required is a pretty seamless management system that can ensure that happens efficiently.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Does the Minister agree with me that we are not investing sufficiently in water defences at present when we bear in mind the weather has probably become less predictable owing to climate change?

The Minister is just out of the agriculture Ministry. Does he have concerns about the fact that the Common Agricultural Policy, CAP, encourages farmers to clear upland areas? In doing so, it is effectively subsidising farmers to flood villages. It does not make sense to be clearing certain lands. Farmers get subsidies to create a faster flow of water to villages. Does the Government have any plan to tackle that?

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I know a bit about the agriculture side. There are pretty demanding directives with which farmers must comply to get their CAP payments and to avail themselves of benefits under the various schemes we operate. Cross-compliance criteria require farmers to ensure they do not undermine directives such as the Water Framework Directive and wildlife directive. Therefore, there are many limitations on what farmers can do, particularly near waterways. They are often required to create buffer strips and to limit the type of drainage put in place. They are required to maintain hedgerows and so forth. Therefore, there is not the free-for-all that some might believe exists for farmers trying to extend productive farmland and, in doing so, causing drainage problems that contribute to flooding further down the system. The regime is much more restrictive than that.

I take the Deputy’s point on some of the more sensitive areas, especially around the Shannon catchment, which is a huge, challenging flood plain. Following the floods of the winter that has just passed, one will see much more co-ordination among all stakeholders to ensure better outcomes regarding flood management on the Shannon.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Is the Minister saying subsidies are no longer available for clearing land? I understand there still are such subsidies. It is a fact the water is reaching the rivers more quickly than ever before.

We used to have land adjacent to rivers that was able to hold a lot of water. This is no longer the case because so much of the land has been cleared. It has been a false policy on the part of the European Union to encourage the clearance of some land. I am not saying it was a bad idea to clear all of it. Making land more available for food production is fine but there ought to be joined-up thinking on the effect of the land clearance on water storage and the pace with which water reaches the channel of the river, and on the impact on the nearest towns. Given that we have had so many problems in this area recently, is the European Union making any effort to reconsider just how encouraging we have been towards clearing land?

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The emphasis is away from clearing land under the new CAP. Obviously, there is a market that farmers want to access in terms of productive farming, which sometimes incentivises trying to create more productivity on farms and a greater output in terms of land management. However, if we examine all the support programmes that exist and the €4 billion rural development programme, it can be seen that it is primarily a question of environmental schemes. These encourage the planting of ryegrass and more hedgerows. Some 30% of the basic payment is linked to a greening element, whereby farmers are required in many cases to have 5% of their land in what is called an ecological focus area. This is about taking land out of intensive food production to promote biological diversity and so on. In many ways, many of the incentives and the public expenditure through the CAP, which we should not forget is to be worth approximately €12.5 billion over its lifetime, are about protecting the environment and ensuring waterways are protected. This is good, but that is not to say we are done and do not need to do more in this area. Certainly, if we are considering the kind of dairy expansion that is being planned, there will be pressures that we will need to manage through the transition.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Let me return to the issue of the storm water pipe. The Minister is now saying the combined system in Dublin is under the jurisdiction of Irish Water. Is that true?

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Sorry?

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Is the Minister saying the combined system in Dublin is now under the authority of Irish Water? That was not my understanding of it. I believe this is what he said in his reply to me. My understanding is that the surplus water was still the responsibility of the local authority despite the fact there was a shared pipe. Will the Minister clarify which body has total responsibility for the combined pipe?

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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My understanding is that responsibility for the combined sewers, which carry both foul sewage and storm water, has been transferred to Irish Water but that responsibility for the water run-off infrastructure for storm water management, etc., remains with the local authorities. I will clarify which body is responsible for which pieces of infrastructure afterwards if it is helpful. My understanding is that the pipe infrastructure is the responsibility of Irish Water but that the surface water run-off infrastructure and so on are the responsibility of local authorities. As I stated, I will give the Deputy a note on that.

Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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Is it not a fiasco having two bodies?

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Not really. There are many areas in respect of which there are multiple agencies working together to achieve better outcomes.

Eugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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That concludes the answers to Questions Nos. 9 and 18. They were two separate questions and, as is evident from a close reading, one was entitled to treat them as such.