Dáil debates

Wednesday, 29 June 2016

Ceisteanna - Questions - Priority Questions

Local Authority Housing Provision

1:50 pm

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independent)
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5. To ask the Minister for Environment, Community and Local Government if he will reverse his Social Housing Strategy 2020 from 70% of social housing needs being met through the housing assistance payment, HAP, scheme and rent supplement scheme, RSS, and 30% through local authority and approved housing bodies build, to 70% local authority and approved housing bodies build and 30% through HAP and RSS, given that he has stated that the solution to the housing crisis is to increase housing supply; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [18710/16]

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independent)
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The Government's policy, stated in its Social Housing Strategy 2020, was that 70% of social housing need was to be met by the rent supplement scheme and landlords and 30% by social housing. The Minister and the Government have repeatedly said the way out of the crisis was to build housing. Their priority seems to be to build private housing, not social housing. I am asking the Government to reverse the policy and aim for 70% social housing and 30% private housing.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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While I take the Deputy's point, it is important to be realistic. While we are going to revise our social housing build targets, even if we were to build the number of social houses the all-party committee report has asked for, it still would not be anywhere near 70% of total housing output. We need to build as many social houses as feasible, given what can be funded and built through local authorities and approved housing bodies between now and 2020 or 2021, which is the kind of timeframe we are trying to plan for. We will also need to rely on the private sector to deliver the majority of houses, some for the rented sector, and some of the rented sector will have a social housing element, whether by way of HAP, rental allowance or rent supplement. This suits some people, such as those who may be in one place for a short period. The HAP scheme allows people to get back into the workforce and increase their incomes.

I agree that we need to ramp up, prepare for, fund and deliver more social housing in an integrated way within communities, which we are going to try to do. However, there is a limit to the scale of the build programme. We will also need to rely on very significant private sector investment to ensure we have balanced development over the next five to ten years, which we are trying to achieve.

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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The Minister is not interested in building social housing.

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independent)
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I challenge the Government's dependence on the private sector to build the housing we need. The Minister is not interested in pumping money into social housing. Social housing stock decreased from 18.4% in 1961 to 9% in 2011. More than 100,000 people are on the housing waiting list. While the Minister is correct that not everybody wants a home, people want stability. With the Government's 2020 strategy of 70% rented and HAP, the Government is pumping money into landlords' pockets rather than building the housing and getting the money back into the Government coffers to meet costs. Will the Minister fundamentally consider changing the strategy from 70% social housing in the future down to 30% reliance on landlords?

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I said we were going to review the social housing output targets. We will do it-----

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independent)
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The Minister is talking about 10,000.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Let me answer the question. Deputies have raised the issue of families who are homeless in Dublin this evening. We are not going to be able to build houses for them by tomorrow, next week or in two weeks' time. However, we may be able to access rental accommodation for them in the meantime. I agree that we need to build many more social houses, and there are many ways we can do it. In Northern Ireland, nearly all social housing is built by approved housing bodies working with a housing agency. Something similar is happening in mainland UK. We are considering models that will deliver much more social housing. We have committed nearly €3 billion to the programme and may commit more, I hope. We will also have to rely on the private rental sector to house many families. To begin committing to an exact 70:30 mix is not to accept the realities we face. We need to ramp up dramatically the build and acquisition programme and conversion from vacant to useful properties in social housing stock. I am committed to all this. I also recognise that, for many families, the private rental sector will be a solution to their social housing need.

2:00 pm

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independent)
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I find it strange to listen to the Minister's response. He is right to say we need emergency accommodation but the families concerned also need hope. They need to believe that perhaps a year down the line they will be in a local authority house in permanent accommodation to enable their kids to go to school. The Minister's strategy with a 70:30 split between private and public housing is a slap in the face for them. Some 70% of those on social housing lists do not want to have a landlord and depend on the RAS and the HAP to provide for their future. They want something permanent. Why is the Minister so reluctant? He says he wants to build more social housing and that that is the task, but why not aspire to a change of ethos and build houses that will serve the country for the next 100 years?

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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That is exactly what we are doing.

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independent)
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It is not.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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We also need affordable private housing as otherwise more and more people will join social housing lists.

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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What is wrong with council housing?

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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There is nothing wrong with it.

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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The Minister has not mentioned-----

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Please allow the Minister to speak without interruption.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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We are trying to provide homes which are affordable and in areas where people want to live. For people who are not able to afford to rent or buy their own homes we want to make sure we will have social housing to meet their needs. That is what we are trying to do with multiple challenges in a housing market that is fundamentally broken and we are trying to fix. While we are building 12,000 or 13,000 housing units a year, we will have huge pressures in the private sector and the social housing sector to provide more and more stock, regardless of the split between social and private housing. We need to increase dramatically the supply of both private and social housing stock in order that we will have permanent homes to enable people to live in diverse and positive communities.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Question No. 6 is in the name of Deputy Carol Nolan but will be taken by Deputy Eoin Ó Broin.