Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for allowing me to raise this important issue. I am delighted the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs is present. I congratulate her on her appointment as Minister and I look forward to working constructively with her throughout her period of office.

As of 31 March 2016, there were 6,405 children in care. Of these, 93% were in foster care, with 4,162 in general foster care and 1,790 in foster care with relatives. The majority of children in care are in foster care family settings in the community. I pay tribute to all the foster parents in Ireland who do, and have done, so much over the years. I raise this matter following the public outcry over a situation where a nine year old boy was taken from the care of his grandparents due to concerns Tusla had regarding their age. Both of them are in their mid-sixties. I am 58 and I have a child aged 14 years. There are many people like me; it is not unusual. It is a strange ruling from that point of view. Incidentally, my wife, the child's mother, is the same age.

While I realise the Minister cannot comment on individual cases, she should know that many people were stunned and appalled to realise that the rule regarding a 40 year age gap was in existence and could be applied in that way. My office has been inundated with calls, e-mails and post on this matter since then. It has terrified grandparents and foster carers throughout the State. It is ageist and discriminatory and must be removed as a rule in fostering arrangements. Recently, I tabled a parliamentary question to the Minister asking her in what circumstances she could instruct or engage Tusla, Child and Family Agency, to alter its policy on a given issue under its remit. The Minister's reply included the following:

Under the Child and Family Agency Act, 2013 there are powers conferred on me as Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, which allow for additional written policy direction and/or guidelines to be given to the Agency. This is covered by section 47 and Section 48 of the Act. My Department works very closely with Tusla and closely monitors ... The need for any additional policy guidance is kept under review.

I ask the Minister, on behalf of all the foster parents and, indeed, grandparents who commit themselves daily to the love and care of their grandchildren or other relatives, to use her power to instruct Tusla to abandon this cruel regulation if it exists in that type of terminology. It is ageist and very damaging. Grandparents have always been hugely involved, especially since the recession, in rearing children, as we see every day. Indeed, I have grandchildren and love bringing them to school, collecting them and bringing them to sports. There is an old saying that it takes a parish to raise a child. It certainly involves extended families and people are fortunate to have grandparents who are retired. It keeps the grandparents young and active as well. There is a huge, loving bond there. It was very damaging in the case concerned to have used that criterion. It sent shock waves throughout the community that it could be a reason. It should not be there. Grandparents play a huge role in forming the child and, indeed, in maintaining family decorum and rearing children daily throughout the State.

Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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I thank the Deputy. It is great that he raised this question and I welcome the opportunity to clarify the 40 year gap guideline on the public record, so we can clarify matters in the minds of the public.

The age of a foster carer or relative foster carer is never the sole reason for deciding on the suitability of a placement for a child in State care. The 40 year age difference between a foster carer and foster child is a guideline, not a policy or rule, and does not determine a decision regarding suitability. The guidance for foster care committees outlines a range of areas to be taken into account by social workers when carrying out assessments of prospective carers to meet the immediate and long-term needs of a child in care. The social worker's focus is on the rights of the child to be placed in the best possible placement for them. The guidelines take into account research which supports stable and suitable placements for children.

For example, where possible and in their interests, the guidelines suggest that children are placed with relatives and foster carers from the same ethnic or cultural background and that foster carers are in good physical and mental health. It is also recommended that placements are made with carers who are open to ongoing engagement with social workers and the child's family. That is the first really important point I want to make.

I have raised this matter with Tusla, the Child and Family Agency, and can confirm that there is currently a review of the overall criteria used by foster care committees in decision making. The review is taking into account the differing needs of children coming into care and ensuring it supports the best placements being made available to children who need them.

I completely agree that older foster carers and relative foster carers, who may be grandparents, uncles and aunts, all play an important role in our care system. It is really important for me to say that. As well as caregivers, they can be mentors, historians and vital links between the child in care and their wider family and friends. It is evident that grandparents and other relatives play a vital role in the lives of many children in care. Tusla has reported that 28% of carers are relative carers. There are numerous cases of children in care placed with their grandparents.

This is not simply a desk exercise, as some commentators have said. The assessment of foster carers, including relative carers, involves a lengthy period of interviews and home visits, including checking references and Garda vetting. In light of all these factors, the age of the carer alone is clearly not a determining issue but it would be a clear oversight on the part of social workers if this was not considered in context. I do not consider it necessary to direct Tusla on this operational guidance.

It is obvious that every decision made by the foster care committee will not be welcomed by all. It is regrettable that there can be hurt. I am not necessarily referring to age issues here. At all times, the focus is and must be on the long-term benefit for the child. It can be a very difficult decision to make. This can seem to some to be a very high standard to expect of a foster carer. It is and it should be. Most children in care have been there for more than one year and over one third will have been in care for more than five years. By and large, there is good placement stability and for some time now, over 90% of children in care are in a family foster placement in the community.

A professional judgement must be made. Most children in care are there following a court order under the Child Care Act 1991. Each case must be treated on its merits. The professional assessment can be tested in the courts when making an application for a care order. In light of these considerations, I cannot in good conscience direct Tusla to omit or ignore anything needed to inform the long-term care of the child.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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Like the Minister, I and everybody else want the best care outcomes for all children, particularly those in foster care. I am not asking the Minister to direct or interfere in an intrusive manner but I ask for a degree of common sense, reflection and understanding of the greater role of grandparents. We all feel it because we are going the one way in age and ageism is such an issue. The Minister acknowledged the role grandparents play and I know Tusla acknowledges it as well but if there are other issues, it is very important that it is not left hanging out there and that age is the issue. This is where guidelines and better interaction and engagement with grandparents and foster parents on the part of social workers and Tusla officials to bring about better understanding come in. If there is no clarity or immediate understanding that there are other reasons, they obviously feel it is done on age grounds. If the children are then removed in some cases to the care of other foster families who are similar in age, it makes it more confusing. I am not here to knock Tusla but to say that I have received calls from all over the country. There needs to be some kind of robust appeals system, better engagement with people, explanation and understanding of the foster carer role. I would not for one minute condone any criticism of foster care. Like anyone, we understand how serious it is but we need more latitude and greater empathy with foster carers, particularly if they are grandparents because of the bond and family connections. As the Minister said, they pass on their heritage and ethnic status. There is no better place to do it than in the extended family, be they grandparents or great aunts or uncles.

Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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I again thank the Deputy and very much take on board his points. It is correct that he raised this issue because he is responding not just to his constituents but to grandparents' calls from throughout the country. I am glad that he did and that I have the opportunity to tell him on the public record that it is not the case that all grandparents are not good enough to have children placed in their care. Clearly, that is not the case. Many grandparents do this and both the State and I am grateful for their generosity, as are their families.

I also take the Deputy's point about better communication on this issue. Perhaps the Department and Tusla are already learning that so it is helpful to hear the Deputy's comments in that regard. Tusla is proactive on this issue. The criteria and guidelines are already being reviewed and Tusla will pay attention to the Deputy's comments here. In addition to what I have put on the record, it is important to say that the age guideline can be disregarded if it is in the professional judgment of the social worker making the assessment that it is not in the best interests of the child. It is there as part of a wide range of criteria and guidelines. At the same time, it is a good question to put to Tusla in the context of its review. It is reviewing matters and is hearing that we are asking whether it is necessarily ageist or discriminatory to have a 40 year age rule given that it is in the context of a number of other guidelines and is considered along with others. I do not think so but it is still something Tusla should consider and no doubt it will do so in light of the Deputy raising the issue here and my response.