Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Tuigim go mbeidh an tAire Stáit, an Teachta Kyne, ag tógáil na ceiste seo. Tá áthas orm faoi sin mar tá mé cinnte go dtuigfidh sé bunús na ceiste.

I have no major argument with JobPath in its own right, many people who will never get commercial employment are being enrolled in it. The Minister of State knows the type of people I am talking about and their profiles. He will be familiar with them from his clinics and from meeting them in other places, as I am. In some cases, JobPath requires people to travel 100 km to Galway once a week to fill in CVs for jobs they will never get. This is not the main issue I am raising today.

Once a person enrols in JobPath, he or she is required to stay on the programme for one year. If JobPath were a voluntary scheme, it would be reasonable, however it is as voluntary as the army volunteer who receives an order. Many of these people are coming to my constituency office and saying they have been offered a place in Tús but have been told they cannot leave JobPath before their year is finished in order to take the Tús place. As the Minister of State is aware, Tús places are highly prized. People want to take up Tús places given that they give them gainful occupation. We should fully recognise that people work on these schemes and that, at a premium of €20 per week, they are probably the cheapest employees in the country. Unfortunately, the Deputies here changed the means testing to make it even less attractive to enrol in these schemes.

I am asking that people would be allowed to transfer mid-stream from JobPath to Tús. By the time they have finished JobPath, the Tús place will have been given to somebody else, and they will spend another year without something gainful to do. When I initially established the Tús scheme, it was not my intention that it would last as a one-year scheme. We know many people will never get commercial jobs, although the system does not want to admit it. The system never covered the commercial market and employed people, as I did. This does not mean they will not do good work, particularly given the very small top-up we pay them. Many of the football pitches, green areas, halls and community centres would not be maintained, open and in good condition were it not for these schemes.

Where it is likely that a person will fail to get commercial employment through JobPath because the professional who is supervising him or her has figured out that his or her marketability on the open market is not great, he or she should be allowed to take places on the Tús scheme as they come up and should not be forced to pass them up and hope another opportunity will come up again once he or she completes the JobPath programme. The Minister of State knows many of the people to whom I refer because we share the same constituency and he knows that this dream of them all getting commercial employment is not based on the reality of the mixture of people in our constituency and in others.

Seán Kyne (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for tabling this Topical Issue to my colleague, the Minister for Social Protection, who, unfortunately, has been called away at short notice. I am taking this on his behalf.

JobPath is an employment activation service that supports people who are long-term unemployed and those most distant from the labour market to secure and sustain full-time paid employment. It is one of a range of activation supports, including schemes such as Tús and the community employment, CE, scheme, catering for long-term unemployed jobseekers. Participants on JobPath receive intensive individual support to help them to overcome barriers to employment and to assist them in finding full-time sustainable jobs. Each person is assigned to a personal adviser who assesses the individual's skills, experience, challenges and work goals. The personal adviser works with the jobseeker to agree a personal progression plan that includes a schedule of activities, actions and job focused targets. Jobseekers are also provided with a range of training and development supports including online modules, career advice, CV preparation and interview skills. They spend a year on JobPath and if they are placed in a job, they will continue to receive support for at least three months and up to 12 months while in employment. During their time on JobPath, they may also be referred for further education and training opportunities. Payments to JobPath providers are linked to, and dependent on, the success of the programme in placing clients into full-time sustained employment and on the quality of services provided.

CE and Tús schemes provide long-term unemployed people with part-time experience as a stepping stone back to employment. However, they are not full sustainable jobs. To manage the allocation of activation support places effectively, the Department does not facilitate or encourage jobseekers to leave one scheme early to take up a place on another scheme. However, where a person is selected for JobPath and has a confirmed start date for another programme, including CE and Tús, then the person is allowed to start on the other programme if he or she so wishes. Participation in other schemes and programmes, including Tús and CE schemes, remains an option that will be assessed by the Department’s case officers once the jobseeker’s participation on JobPath is completed.

The Deputy is correct that I have come across cases like those he mentioned in our constituency. I hope the same people are not approaching both of us.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I hope they are because they are hard cases.

Seán Kyne (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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They are hard cases and I understand where the Deputy is coming from. I also recognise the importance of the great work that people do on CE and Tús schemes. The Deputy was involved in the establishment of those schemes when he was Minister. I will take this issue back to the Minister and ask him to re-examine it. The Deputy is correct that everyone is not suited to JobPath. I have met people who have fallen through the cracks and they are not capable for a variety of reasons of taking up such an option. There is validity in what the Deputy is asking for and I will bring the cases up with the Minister. He is new in the job but I will establish if he can re-examine the options the Deputy suggested.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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When I was asked would I accept that the Minister could not come to the House because he was otherwise engaged and I was told the Minister of State was coming in, I said that was acceptable because I know he faces the same realities with the same humanity that I face every day. When I set up Tús, it was initially intended to be similar to the rural social scheme whereby participants could make a career out of the scheme. It was intended for those who would never secure commercial employment. I recall when I worked in a co-operative that some staff worked in the commercial timber mill while others worked on a scheme. Some people were doing good work on the scheme but I would not have given them a job in the commercial part of the business for reasons that anybody who understands people knows. The Department sometimes reminds me of a cartoon published in Dublin Opinionmany years ago of Cardinal Henry Newman reading a book he wrote on the university with a caption beneath it saying Cardinal Henry Newman did not understand students because the book was idealistic. There is an ideal in the Department of Social Protection that has been there for a long time that everybody in society is capable of securing a commercial job if he or she only put his or her mind to it. Let us face the reality that people vary in their many manifestations. They are not necessarily better or worse people but some people will never get a commercial job, anymore than someone will ever teach me to play music. I could be trained until the cows come home but I would not be able to play music. I wish I could; I would love to be able to but I cannot. I had all the music classes available as a child but it just did not work.

I am delighted the Minister of State is present and all I can ask him to do is go back to the Minister and ask him to think about all those who visit his clinic and his colleagues' clinics, the reality experienced by the people we meet every day and recognise that a long-term as opposed to a one-year Tús scheme is needed, similar to the rural social scheme, which has done so much good work. Such a scheme would provide gainful occupation for people on a long-term basis. All they are asking for is a small top-up of their dole payment. They would then have the dignity of having somewhere to go and work to do.

It is amazing, as I pointed out when I was in the Department, that we never seem to stop to ask ourselves what would happen to community services in most of Ireland if Tús, CE, RSS and other schemes were stopped. Most of the equivalent work done on these schemes is done by fully paid local authority staff in public parks and so on in Dublin. Will the Minister of State do his best on our behalf? His heart is in the right place.

Seán Kyne (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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I will engage with the Minister on this issue. JobPath will increase the capacity of the Department to provide services to jobseekers most in need of help and it has contracted two companies to deliver the programme's services. Both companies have considerable experience in successfully delivering employment services. There are two contract areas. The roll-out of JobPath is expected to be completed in early July and, at that stage, all departmental offices will refer jobseekers to JobPath. Some 37,000 clients have been referred to the programme on a pilot basis and the experience so far has been positive. For all the positive cases, there are people who fall through the cracks and who are in dire straits. These are the cases to which the Deputy refers. There are success stories and positives, as there are under every scheme, but we must address the people who fall through the cracks because of the terms and conditions of the scheme or because they are not suited to it. I will take that up with the Minister.

Jobseekers retain their social welfare payment while on JobPath. Participation in the programme is mandatory and all decisions about client welfare entitlements are taken by departmental officials. JobPath contracts stipulate a significant number of requirements that both companies have to meet and the contracts have an inbuilt service guarantee, which means that each jobseeker will be guaranteed a baseline level of service, including frequent meetings with case officers and a transparent complaints process, etc. JobPath providers are bound under contract to achieve specified levels of employment, progression performance and customer service quality and failure to achieve these targets will affect their payments. Service quality will be reviewed by independent customer satisfaction research. This will be rolled out fully in July. There has been a pilot programme. I will take up the cases highlighted by the Deputy with the Minister to see what can be done to allow these individuals to opt for other schemes where possible.