Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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5. To ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs in relation to the number of supervision orders applied for in the courts by the Child and Family Agency, Tusla, since it was established in January 2014, the number of supervision orders granted consequent on these applications and consequent on an application for a care order, but where the court granted a supervision order instead. [15262/16]

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I welcome the opportunity to table this question and I look forward to the answer. I have been concerned about this for a very long time. I am asking the Minister to make a statement and clarify the number of applications made for supervision orders, indicating how many supervision orders were granted consequent on those applications to the courts and are consequent on the courts refusing a care order and giving a supervision order.

Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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I am aware of the Deputy's concern in this regard in light of other exchanges we have had. Perhaps we can tease this out a little more.

The latest figures available from the Child and Family Agency, Tusla, are for 2014. They indicate that there were 435 children under new supervision orders throughout 2014 and that there were 413 children subject to a supervision order on 31 December 2014. These figures relate to the number of children and not the number of applications that may have been made and granted. Consequently, there may be several orders in respect of the same child over a period. Figures reported by the Courts Service are not counted on a like-for-like basis and are not directly comparable. However, I understand from cases reported as part of the child care law reporting project, conducted by Dr. Carol Coulter, that about 70% of applications for supervision orders were granted and a further 16% were adjourned by the end of 2014. The number of supervision orders that were granted in place of a care order is not available.

Each child welfare and protection referral received by Tusla is assessed and dealt with on an individual basis by the relevant social work team. All referrals are screened by a social worker to see if the child needs a social work service. If required, a social worker works with the parent or parents to support them in providing safe care for their child. In some instances, Tusla may apply to the District Court for a supervision order to underpin the ongoing social work role within the family. These orders can be particularly helpful when dealing with adolescents living at home who may be at risk due to their behaviour. Such an order allows the young person and their family to benefit from a structured engagement with social workers. In many cases, where a child is being discharged from care a supervision order may be granted as part of the child's care plan to facilitate reunification with the family.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I hope this is the start of a journey to find out precisely what are the figures as it is a cause of great concern for me. I welcome the figures provided by the Minister, indicating there were 413 children subject to a supervision order as of 31 December 2014. That is the first time I have got a figure and I thank the Minister for that. However, to understand the figure it must be placed in context. How many care orders were in existence at that point?

I have had the privilege of working both in law and psychology and I can only give my experience plus what people tell me. It seems that care orders are applied for much more regularly than supervision orders, as supervision orders have implications for resources. We know that in each area, city and county that there is a lack of social workers. The easier option - I use the phrase with the greatest respect - is to apply for a care order and take the child rather than putting in a supervision order with the necessary resources. That is particularly relevant in light of the recent high profile case when a seven year old child who spent half his life with his grandparents was taken. I am not going into the detail of the case but simply indicating the child was taken. It is the same experience with children taken into care when a supervision order might be much more appropriate. I am trying to establish the frequency of one compared with the other and if the lack of resources is leading to an abundance of care orders instead of supervision orders.

Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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I have the greatest respect for the experience from which the Deputy asks this question. I recall her referring to the issue in earlier exchanges. Currently there is no evidence to suggest that social workers apply for care orders rather than supervision orders because care orders are less time consuming. I acknowledge that the Deputy has a suspicion or an intuition in that regard but there is currently no evidence to that end. The application to the courts for a care order is an intensive procedure involving the holding of a multidisciplinary case conference, the preparation of legal applications, the development of a care plan and finding a suitable placement, with arrangement and facilitation of family access. When in care, the child continues to have an allocated social worker with regular care planning reviews.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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The Minister was doing great until the point we started getting bureaucratic speak. We cannot say there is no evidence as there is an obligation on Tusla to have the evidence. The figures should be before us today and if that is not possible, they should come before us at the earliest opportunity. That should be before a Minister would make a statement that there is no evidence. I can only speak from my experience and the representations made to me, which suggest clearly that care orders are applied for more frequently than supervision orders. The question is whether that arises because of a lack of resources. It seems to be the case.

Every Deputy in the House knows there is a lack of social workers for regular work, not to mention putting in resources for a supervision order. Ultimately, the welfare of the child is paramount in all the legislation, including the Child Care Act as amended. There was a referendum to put a special provision in the Constitution to protect children but none of this evidence was available at the time; it is still not available in 2016. In working with the Minister, I hope we can get those figures and make proper evaluations rather than statements that the evidence is not available.

Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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May I say again how much I respect the Deputy's experience and commitment to the welfare of children, out of which she raises this question. I have argued there is no evidence and the Deputy has indicated that perhaps Tusla has an obligation to collect that evidence. I trust the context from which the Deputy speaks and her concern. I will commit to continuing this conversation and seeing how we can progress the issue.

On that basis, if I believe there is a strong reason to go to Tusla to request that this be brought forward, I will do that. That is what I suggest.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I welcome that.