Dáil debates

Tuesday, 17 May 2016

Ceisteanna - Questions - Priority Questions

Commissions of Investigation

2:45 pm

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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3. To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality if she is satisfied with the handling of the allegations made by a person (details supplied), the investigation by a person (details supplied), the actions of her predecessor as Minister and the consequences that resulted for her predecessor and the former Garda Commissioner given the findings of the final report of the Commission of Investigation (Certain Matters Relative to the Cavan/Monaghan Division of An Garda Síochána). [10529/16]

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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This question also relates to the commission of investigation carried out by Mr. Justice Kevin O'Higgins. I thank Mr Justice O'Higgins and his team for the manner in which they fulfilled their mandate. Mr. Seán Guerin, on presenting his report to Cabinet, recommended the establishment of a commission of investigation into all of the matters addressed in his report. The Cabinet accepted Mr. Guerin's recommendations in full and asked Mr. Justice O'Higgins to investigate, as definitively as possible, the facts surrounding the matters he was asked to examine.

Inevitably, Mr. Justice O'Higgins reaches a number of conclusions about the roles played by a number of persons in the events outlined in his report. As I stated at the launch of the report, I hope all those affected can accept, as I do fully, that Mr. Justice O'Higgins looked at the facts fairly and dispassionately and made every effort to do justice to the positions of all. As I have stated previously, the central issue is that the Garda takes steps to ensure the victims of crime and those who report crimes are dealt with properly.

Some of the events investigated by Mr. Justice O’Higgins go back a decade. For my part, it is clear that the system in place until a couple of years ago for dealing with reports of wrongdoing within the Garda did not serve anyone particularly well. Deputy Howlin, in his previous role as Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, introduced the Protected Disclosures Act 2014, which allowed gardaí making allegations of wrongdoing in the Garda to go directly to the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission and enjoy protection under the new legislation. Previously, such allegations had to be dealt with in the Garda but this approach did not work and protected disclosures may now be made to GSOC.

In the past two years, the Policing Authority has also been established and the powers of the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission have been strengthened. The Garda Commissioner will also announce a reform programme next week.

We should note what the O'Higgins report has to say about each of the individuals central to the establishment of the commission of investigation and the events it was tasked with investigating.

I accept in full the findings of the report, as does the Government. We need to take measures not to repeat the failures that existed in the past.

2:50 pm

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I begin by congratulating the Tánaiste on her appointment and wish her well. The Tánaiste mentioned the Protected Disclosures Act. She would be aware that one of the major findings of the process of enacting that legislation was not the challenge of enacting law but of bringing about cultural change, particularly for disciplined bodies whose reaction, not only in this country but elsewhere, is to close rank in the face of a whistleblower rather than investigate the merit or demerit of any allegation of wrongdoing. Is the Tánaiste satisfied that the cultural change we talked about in the enactment of that legislation has taken place in An Garda Síochána, specifically in regard to the treatment of the whistleblower, Garda Maurice McCabe?

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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The Protected Disclosures Act was important legislation. Many organisations face challenges and need cultural change in order to deal and work effectively with whistleblowers. I believe the legislative framework we now have in place supports this and is helpful in terms of how whistleblowers within An Garda Síochána are dealt with. I have discussed this subject on a number of occasions with Garda management and it is operating fully in line with the legislation. There is no question but that it needs ongoing monitoring of the issue and to be vigilant to ensure that whistleblowers are dealt with properly.

In the case of Sergeant Maurice McCabe, the commission finding is that he did the State some service. He did An Garda Síochána a service by raising the issues he did, as the Garda Commissioner said yesterday in her statement. The Garda put in place a range of initiatives and supports to ensure Sergeant McCabe felt supported. I am satisfied there is an understanding currently within An Garda Síochána of the need to support whistleblowers and that in terms of welfare and support for whistleblowers in the context of investigation of issues, there is confidentiality in dealings with them.

It takes time to change a culture and I do not expect it will change overnight. However, I believe that at management level, there is an understanding of the need to comply fully with the legislation to achieve the kind of cultural change the Deputy mentioned.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I asked the Tánaiste specifically about the case of Garda Sergeant McCabe and whether she is satisfied that how he has been, and is being, treated indicate that the cultural change required has happened. Also, has she any concerns about the reputational harm or career damage done to former Minister, Alan Shatter, and former Garda Commissioner, Mr. Callinan? In her view, can the reputations and careers of what might be called "establishment figures" be adversely affected without let or hindrance while other people's reputation, careers or well-being must be protected?

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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On cultural change, I obviously rely on the answers given to questions I ask and the reports I get from An Garda Síochána. Looking back at the controversy in regard to penalty points, the Garda involved Sergeant McCabe in that process. Also, based on the information I have on the position in regard to Sergeant McCabe, I believe the cultural change Deputy Howlin mentioned is in place. I feel that every effort is being made by An Garda Síochána to ensure that cultural change is in place for Sergeant McCabe and other whistleblowers.

On the question of my predecessor, I was pleased to see in the report that my Department had acted properly at all times in handling the issues that came before it. It was precisely in order to establish those facts that the commission was set up. We had a preliminary report from Seán Guerin, which was a scoping report and not one in which there were findings of fact. If the recommendations from that report had not been acted upon as he envisaged we would not have the outcome we have now.

2:55 pm

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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What redress does the former Deputy, Alan Shatter, have?

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Tánaiste must conclude as time is up.

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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We now have the report, which shows very clearly that the former Minister, Alan Shatter, operated properly and that there is no question of any corruption relating to the Commissioner. There will be a debate in the House. The former Deputy has written to the Taoiseach and there will be a detailed response.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot get into these matters. The Tánaiste will have to conclude.