Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Socialist Party)
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8. To ask the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation the number of interns for whom he has provided placements under the JobBridge scheme since the scheme began; and how many of these were subsequently offered full-time employment in his Department. [2087/16]

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Socialist Party)
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I am glad that the Minister of State mentioned a solutions-based approach because with this question we come to one of the Labour Party's favourite solutions which works so well for employers and those who want people to work for free. For how many interns has the Minister provided placements under the JobBridge scheme and how many of them were subsequently offered full-time employment in his Department?

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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As Minister in the Department with primary responsibility for the promotion of a competitive environment that supports and promotes job creation, my Department and I are acutely aware of the enormous value of work experience in assisting jobseekers in finding employment. Since the inception of the JobBridge national internship scheme, my Department has been a willing participant and sought to maximise the opportunities available to jobseekers. Since 2011, when the scheme began, 25 placements have been offered by my Department, of which 13 have been taken up. Of these, six left within the proposed internship period - five to take up employment elsewhere and one for unspecified reasons - while five successfully completed their internship before moving on to other endeavours. There are two JobBridge interns assigned to my Department.

I emphasise for the Deputy that internships do not displace existing staff and are not used to fill vacant posts. My Department’s HR unit has been very careful to structure internships in such a way as to ensure interns receive quality training and experience that maximises their opportunity to find employment subsequently. The intern placements offered to date by my Department have been in areas such as company law and legal research, intellectual property and copyright report research, records management and entrepreneurship strategy projects.

On the question of JobBridge participants subsequently being offered employment in my Department, recruitment to all Departments is conducted openly and transparently via the Public Appointments Service and open to all suitably qualified applicants, as determined by the recruitment process. The possibility of directly retaining interns in my Department was, therefore, not an option. I am, however, confident that the experience they gained while in my Department was of significant benefit to them as they sought to progress their careers.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Socialist Party)
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As the Minister did not really provide the figure in the very clear way I would like, I will spell out what I think the answer was. I asked how many placements had been provided and the answer was 13. A total of 25 placements were offered, of which 13 were taken up. I asked how many of them were subsequently offered full-time employment. If I did not take up the Minister wrong, the answer is zero. He obtained interns to work for the Department for nine monhts - I am sure they received valuable experience, etc. - and then did not employ them. This is the Department that is meant to be dealing with job creation. It highlights what is happening with the JobBridge scheme in that interns are being used to do work to make up for the recruitment embargo. They are also being used to legitimise the idea of people working for free and thus counteract the idea that there is actual job creation. That is the Government leading the way and the solutions-focused approach which sends a message to the private sector that if a company wants somebody to work for free, there is a great scheme called JobBridge in place, whereby the State will subsidise the company to have somebody come to work for free and the company will not have to employ them. I do not see how this helps in dealing with the unemployment crisis.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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It has long been established that a catch-22 for people seeking to enter the labour force is that they do not have experience. The purpose of the JobBridge programme is to bridge that gap. The Department of Social Protection, to which the Deputy should, perhaps, direct his questions, has very clear requirements in respect of the training provided and the value of the experience gained. That is what we have done. As made clear in the answer, nearly 50% of interns went directly from a JobBridge scheme placement into employment; therefore, the experience gained did help them to find employment. Obviously, the others have moved on and no doubt many of them have found work. The public service recruitment process remains open and transparent, as I outlined. I thought the Deputy would see it as valid, to allow all qualified persons to compete for posts in the public service.

As the Deputy knows, there have not been many opportunities for recruitment in the public service but now, as a result of the progress we are making elsewhere in the economy, we are in a position to recruit, particularly in areas on the front line, such as health and education, which is welcome. I strongly defend the value of work experience and training for any worker seeking to progress their career.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Socialist Party)
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I strongly attack these activation schemes as a mechanism for the Government to manipulate unemployment figures, further casualise the labour market, normalise the idea of working for free, drive down working conditions and undermine working wages and conditions for all. How many of the 13 who took up positions in the Minister's Department did so under threat or perceived threat of sanction? The number of penalties applied to people not taking up activation schemes such as Gateway and JobBridge has shot up. More than 5,000 people received a reduction in their social welfare payment in 2015. These people are forced to work; they are not doing it voluntarily. In the National Youth Council of Ireland study, 11% said they took part in order to retain their social welfare, 100% were dissatisfied with it and 44% felt the companies - I presume this includes the public sector - use the scheme solely for free labour.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy should acknowledge that every country with an unemployment problem develops work experience programmes as part of its response. The OECD has been very strong in advocating that Ireland needs to have a wider range of these sort of programmes that give people a bridge from whatever they did in school or college to the employment environment. Those schemes are continually evaluated by the Department of Social Protection which has weeded out cases of abuse. These work experience programmes prevail in all countries with strong activation policies that provide quality opportunities for people to progress in their careers. JobBridge is no different; more than 60% have progressed to unemployment from the programme. A wide variety of employers is engaged and many companies have put substantial amounts of money into developing the training programmes that give people genuinely good work experience on these programmes. They are an important and valuable part of the response to unemployment.