Dáil debates

Tuesday, 15 December 2015

Topical Issue Debate

Flood Relief Schemes Applications

4:55 pm

Photo of Denis NaughtenDenis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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I thank the council staff, emergency services, including An Garda Síochána, the Army, Civil Defence, the Irish Red Cross Society and staff from the Office of Public Works, some of whom I met in Ballinasloe, and the farming and local communities for their tremendous efforts over the last ten days in terms of their actions once water levels started to rise. However, had there been a small bit of pre-planning once the heavy rain was anticipated a lot more properties could have been saved from the flooding. Since the last serious flooding event in 2009, some remedial works, which are welcome and have been successful, were carried out in some towns but more were postponed upon completion of the Catchment Flood Risk Assessment and Management report. Delays in obtaining pumps and sandbags impacted on particular towns and communities. There is need for a protocol to be put in place to ensure that this does not happen again. We have experienced two 100-year flood events in the past six years. The probability is that we are going to experience more 100-year flooding events in the not too distant future and we need to be prepared for them.

I welcome that businesses are eligible for funding under the humanitarian support scheme put in place by the Government. However, funding under this scheme will be only in respect of returning a business to its state pre-flooding and not for any loss of earnings incurred. The Minister of State, Deputy Kehoe, will be aware that this fund which is being administered through the Department of Social Protection does not facilitate the many businesspeople who do not have money to put bread and butter on the table because to be eligible for this funding their homes had to be flooded. As such, these people have no current income and will be at a loss of income that would have been generated during the most profitable time of the year, which money would usually carry them through the lean months in the early part of next year. Something needs to be done to assist these people.

I would like to put a number of questions to the Minister of State in regard to the application form for this funding. First, can a landlord who signs a form for a tenant in respect of a commercial premises also make an application under this scheme for structural damage to that premises? Second, will consideration be given to inclusion under this scheme of landlords whose private residential properties have been damaged by flooding, which properties need to be repaired and returned to the market as quickly as possible? Third, why must an applicant provide evidence that a property has been flooded? We were told that no documentation would be required in respect of the initial €5,000 claim. It now transpires that the initial application must be verified by a local authority prior to its being forwarded to the Irish Red Cross Society, which creates an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy. My concern is that this will discourage some people from availing of this funding. There is also a need for engagement with the banks to ensure there is flexibility in relation to loans, including extension of same and so on. A rates release scheme must also be put in place on behalf of victims of flooded commercial premises.

The Taoiseach said earlier in the House that farming is a business but it is specifically excluded from the Irish Red Cross Society administered scheme. A considerable amount of fodder has been damaged and destroyed. While this not an issue now the unavailability of fodder in the early part of next year will be an animal welfare issue. Financial provision needs to be made for farmers that have lost fodder as a result of the recent flooding.

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I, too, acknowledge the contribution of all of the agencies, including the county councils, the Irish Red Cross Society, the Civil Defence, and volunteers from the local communities in terms of their efforts during the recent flooding.

The Government has approved an allocation of €5 million to be distributed as emergency humanitarian support to small businesses, which through no fault of their own have been unable to secure flood insurance and were recently flooded. The Irish Red Cross Society has agreed to administer the scheme. The objective of the scheme is to provide a once-off ex-gratiacontribution towards the costs of damage incurred by those small businesses which were unable to secure flood insurance and were flooded arising from the impact of Storm Desmond during the period 4 December 2015 to 17 December 2015. The scheme is aimed at providing a contribution to the costs of returning business premises to their pre-flood condition, including the replacement of flooring, fixtures and fittings and damaged stock. It applies only to rateable premises that have been flooded and it is intended as an emergency humanitarian assistance contribution rather than compensation for loss or a replacement for the cover provided by insurance.

The nature of the impact on businesses affected by the flooding required that as an emergency measure a speedy process be put in place to meet their needs. In this regard, a two-step approach is being taken, involving an initial application which, if successful will lead to a quick payment to be capped at €5,000 per property. I am informed by the Minister of State, Deputy Harris, that there will be a five-day turnaround or less in this regard. As such, the scheme is not overly bureaucratic. There must be clarification in relation to whether a property was flooded and if at the time of the flooding it was a rateable premises. To say that the application system is slow and laborious is untrue. The Minister of State, Deputy Harris, was involved in the design of this scheme. It has been designed in such a way as to ensure a quick turnaround of applications to assist businesspeople to resume business as soon as possible.

It is anticipated that some businesses will have incurred significant damages and will require a more detailed assessment of losses incurred. In these cases, a second more detailed assessment of losses incurred will be required. This will provide the scope for a further payment, with the total payment available capped at €20,000. However, this will be a more lengthy process requiring a detailed assessment. The total level of support available under both stages will be capped at €20,000. The criteria for qualification for payment under the scheme are as follows: only those small businesses that could not secure flood insurance are eligible; for the purpose of this scheme, a small business will be defined as one with up to 20 employees; the business premises must have been flooded during the period 4 December 2015 and 17 December 2015, with this verified by the relevant local authority; any location within the State that was flooded during the period in question is encompassed by the scheme and at the time of the flood, the business must have been trading and in a rateable premises. Applications forms are available on the Irish Red Cross Society website. The scheme is targeted at trading businesses rather than landlords. It is anticipated that this will address the vast majority of businesses affected. However, where particular circumstances arise, each case will be dealt with on an individual basis.

The emergency scheme does not apply to farmers. Farmers in flooded areas can make contact with the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine animal welfare helpline at Callsave 076 1064408 or 01 6072379 or Teagasc at 076 1113555. I will bring the Deputy's concerns regarding farmers to the attention of the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Coveney, who is unavailable today.

I have no doubt that the farming organisations, whether the IFA, ICMSA, ICSA Ireland or others, will be involved in ensuring there are no feed shortages. One has to applaud the IFA. In 2009, it stepped up to the mark and helped out all farmers on an individual basis by getting fodder from other parts of the country and bringing it to flood-risk areas. I have no doubt farmers will not be left wanting when they have the likes of the IFA and other such organisations at their disposal.

5:05 pm

Photo of Denis NaughtenDenis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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One would nearly think I was pre-empting a flood when, on 1 December, I asked the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine if he would extend the TAMS II programme to allow for grant aid for flood defences for farm buildings to be put in place. The Minister said, "No" at the time. Will the Minister of State take the issue up with the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine and ask him to extend the criteria relating to it?

While I am on the issue of flood prevention, I will raise a matter with the two Ministers of State present. It would help if the criteria for the home renovation incentive scheme were amended to deal with the issue of flood prevention in domestic situations. I earnestly ask both Ministers of State to examine if we can put a small, tight grant aid scheme in place for households outside the flood mitigation areas. Provision will not be made for them under that scheme. I ask that they would have access to financial assistance where practical solutions can be put in place to protect their homes.

I am disappointed with the Minister of State's response that there is no specific provision for the agriculture industry but thank him for his commitment to take it up with the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine. I am also disappointed that there is no provision for commercial landlords and private residential property landlords. These properties will now remain sterile, in particular residential properties. There is no assistance in terms of getting them refurbished. The tenants will move out and, naturally enough, will not move back in and one cannot blame them. Something needs to be done to assist these landlords.

The intention was to streamline the process in so far as is possible. However, the application process requires an applicant for the maximum grant of €5,000 to submit detailed estimates of the cost of the works to be carried out or the cost of recovering stock. Applicants will need assistance in this regard. They will have to get a builder to put a price on it and will then have to send it to the local authority to be certified. It will then be sent to the Irish Red Cross. There are at least two separate outside bodies involved before it gets to the Irish Red Cross. I accept that it might be processed within five days once received but the structure is not simple. Will the Minister of State examine it again?

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I will communicate Deputy Naughten's concerns to the Minister, Deputy Coveney, and ask him to reconsider the request made earlier this month. An interdepartmental group is examining all the issues raised by Deputy Naughten and it will report early next year. A number of other issues are also currently being examined by the group. I remind the Deputy that we are spending taxpayers' money and, therefore, there must be a trail. It is not as simple as having a person show up at the Irish Red Cross office and say his or her property was flooded and needs €5,000. The Irish Red Cross cannot verify the cost involved there and then. It will have to be verified by the local authority. The scheme is not asking much from the business person. He or she will be getting €5,000, which is a fairly substantial sum of money. A further sum of money is also available, subject to further verification, if a premises has been flooded. The scheme could not be much simpler than what it is currently. I understand that a large number of business people have suffered losses of earnings and so forth but the Irish Red Cross is doing a fabulous job in administering the scheme and will turn over applications as quickly as possible.

I do not want the Deputy or anyone else to take me up wrong but there was a huge amount of hysteria on the part of our national broadcaster, in particular, for a number of days. It was almost at the point of saying that towns and businesses were closed and to stay away. A relation in Athlone told me that it was necessary for the town to say that it was not closed and that business premises were still open and trading.

Photo of Denis NaughtenDenis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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The same applies to Carrick-on-Shannon and Ballinasloe.

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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It is important for the national broadcaster to understand that it is dealing with family businesses. It was saying on the national airwaves, whether it was on the six o'clock news, the nine o'clock news or in hourly bulletins, that all these towns and businesses were closed but the opposite was true. Businesses were still open and operating and they wanted to continue operating. The period coming up to Christmas is a prime time of the year for them and they want Christmas shoppers. I would like RTE, our national and public broadcaster, to be more careful in its reporting. It is very well for it to be broadcasting the news but it should take into account that it is dealing with family businesses which, at the end of the day, need to make a crust.

As Minister of State in the Department of Defence, I congratulate the Defence Forces across the country. They risked their lives, as did many others, in the floods. The Defence Forces and the Civil Defence did a brilliant job over the past two weeks and will continue to be at the beck and call of the people, as required.