Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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We have seen on television and on the ground the devastation being caused by the floods. People's hearts have been broken. The River Suck drainage committee was disbanded more than a year ago, meaning that 30 or 40 people employed in the committee have not been doing any work to prevent flooding. The scheme was sponsored by Galway and Roscommon county councils. The rivers in most counties, including counties Mayo and Offaly, have not been cleaned out.

The Minister of State, Deputy Damien English, will be familiar with land. We come from marginal land and spend our lives trying to tame a wild duck, in other words, trying to make good land out of middling land. We do this by creating shores and making and cleaning drains. Some towns require flood walls to block flood waters. However, in the vast majority of locations, the most important measure is to clean out rivers. The River Shannon at Banagher, for example, is silted up to approximately 12 ft. I know a guy who failed to get up the River Suck in a canoe because of the level of silt in the river. I am not scaremongering. I come from this area and have a good idea of the issues.

Under successive Governments, the position has been that everyone but local people are responsible for water courses. Five or six bodies, including the ESB, Inland Fisheries Ireland, the National Parks and Wildlife Service, which thinks it owns the country, and Waterways Ireland, share responsibility but none of them co-ordinates with the other bodies. We have to cut to the chase by ensuring that one body assumes responsibility. It is hard luck to whoever comes in the way of a machine intended to save people's lives because I am sick of people telling me that flora or fauna are more important than a human being.

Nearly every Deputy was brought up in the countryside and we grew up with nature and looked after it. We preserved the birds. Weekend fundamentalist environmentalists are coming to the country and telling us what to do, which will not work. We have now drowned most of the nature in every part of the country because these people do not understand managed landscapes.

Municipal areas generally have two area engineers. However, staff have been cut over the years and people who retire are not replaced. At one stage, a member of council staff, usually an elderly guy, would travel around water courses, opening them up with a shovel. This had an unbelievable effect in areas.

The lunacy of European Union regulations means workers building a road in Moycullen were told to stop work if rainfall exceeded 6 ml. because a dropeen might get near the poor pearl mussel, which was five miles downstream. We need to cop on. Behind the scenes, everyone will tell me I am right but that does not solve the problem for people in Athlone who are out of their homes this evening because of flooding.

If we are so fond of the environment, we should consider the environmental damage being caused by the floods. Many slatted sheds are full of water today, which means a large amount of slurry will flow down the River Shannon. There is no point in denying it.

Every Deputy would support the Government if it sent a Minister to Europe to face down whoever it is over there who thinks he is God almighty. We should ask the EU whether it wants slurry or water to flow down the River Shannon and whether it wants people to live in Ireland or the country to become a theme park.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Fitzmaurice for his comments. As usual, he speaks common sense. His contribution reminds me of a conversation I had in my first year in the Dáil with the former Minister of State with responsibility for the Office of Public Works, Mr. Tom Parlon. I asked him to get the dredging machines working and he responded positively to that suggestion. That is the type of attitude we need. There are many rules and regulations in place, some of which have been introduced by the European Union and some introduced at national level. There are also many agencies involved. We need to find a way to cut through the red tape and get the work done. Part of the solution is having staff and resources to achieve this and thankfully we are now in a position to start doing things again because we have money. As I stated the other night, more money will be spent on flood remediation in the next five years than was spent in the past 20 years. The issue is to ensure this money is spent as quickly and effectively as possible and none of it is wasted unnecessarily on red tape.

Many changes are coming on-stream from a European perspective in the sense that we are seeking to reduce regulation. The Deputy is correct, however, that we must also speak with our own voices to try to bring back common sense where we can. However, it should be noted that while the European Union is often blamed, most of the rules introduced by the EU are agreed by national governments. For his reason, we must start to speak up at the right time. We also have to find ways to respond properly when emergencies occur.

I am speaking on behalf of the Minister of State, Deputy Simon Harris, who could not be present as he and the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine are giving a presentation on this matter elsewhere. The Minister of State recognises the importance of leading on the issue of flooding and ensuring we are not always caught up in red tape. The Government is trying to do this as best it can.

In the past six years, we have twice had a level of rainfall that is expected only once every 100 years. This brings urgency to the issue. The Office of Public Works is trying to lead by producing long-term plans to deal with flooding. I understand the Deputy's position in asking what we can do today and tomorrow to try to alleviate the immediate problems, while the long-term plans are being implemented.

I convey my deepest sympathy to all those who have been affected by the recent flooding. In particular, I extend my sympathies to the family and relatives of Mr. Vaughan who died in County Monaghan as a result of the floods. The Minister of State has seen at first hand the devastating impact of flooding on lives and livelihoods in recent days, as all Deputies have either on television or their local areas. The Government assures all those affected that we will continue to do everything we can to assist people in getting their properties and lives back to normal again as soon as possible. A number of funding arrangements have been put in place in recent days to help alleviate some of the difficulties that have been caused. I am aware that the Deputy has welcomed these measures. He also discussed how to prevent more hassle, which is an issue on which the Government is focused.

Storm Desmond, which affected the whole country but particularly the western seaboard, was a severe weather event dominated by record high intensity, short duration rainfall together with storm force gales, with the greatest impact experienced along the western seaboard from County Donegal to County Cork. I reiterate that the type of flooding that one expects one in 100 years are becoming common. It is time to review the basis on which such predictions are made.

I pay tribute to local authority and Defence Forces personnel and all those who are working day and night to protect life and properties and who are also engaged in recovery work.

The national co-ordination group for severe weather is meeting this evening. The group is chaired by the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government. It has been meeting on a daily basis since last Friday. Initially, the group met to assess the forecast and the risk. Since then, it has met to deal with the aftermath of the storm. As Deputy Fitzmaurice is aware, the gauging stations in the Shannon catchment are indicating that the river level is continuing to rise. The public should continue to be aware and take heed of public safety advice.

This week the Government established a fund of €5 million to assist business owners who have suffered from damage to their property but who do not have insurance. The fund is being administered by the Irish Red Cross according to criteria for payment and assessment currently being worked out. This is being done under the auspices of my colleague, the Minister for Defence, Deputy Coveney. We warmly welcome the creation of this fund. An existing humanitarian aid scheme has been in operation for some years. It is operated by the Department of Social Protection and serves to assist households with immediate needs and requirements. The Government is making every effort to get the new fund up and running and to get the money out to the people who need it as quickly as possible. The idea is to try to skip some of the red tape that is delaying the spending of that money.

The Office of Public Works is the lead State body for the co-ordination and implementation of Government policy in the management of flood risk in Ireland. The OPW is also the national authority for the implementation of the EU floods directive and the assessment and management of flood risk. This goes back to bringing a focus to the problem. We have numerous agencies but someone has to lead. The OPW has taken charge now. The office is trying to speed up somewhat the delivery of change.

The statutory basis of the OPW role in flood risk management is contained in the Arterial Drainage Acts 1945 to 1995. Under these Acts, the OPW undertook a number of arterial drainage schemes, whose purpose was primarily to improve the drainage of agricultural land to enhance production. I know what Deputy Fitzmaurice has said in this regard. This is what we are trying to enhance. Typically, that work involved lowering or widening riverbeds to facilitate the drainage and discharge of neighbouring lands and drainage channels. While not the primary purpose of the schemes, this work did provide enhanced conveyance capacity where rivers passed through towns, villages and dispersed rural communities. This has, in turn, reduced the amount of flooding that could occur in these areas. Although new arterial drainage schemes are no longer being undertaken, the OPW has a statutory duty to maintain the completed schemes and ensure they remain in proper repair and in an effective condition. Local authorities also have a statutory responsibility for the maintenance of drainage districts, which comprise local drainage schemes completed as per the 1935 legislation. Each year the OPW carries out work along approximately 2,000 km of channels as well as 200 structures throughout the country as part of its ongoing and rolling arterial drainage maintenance programme.

Joe O'Reilly (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I am sorry to interrupt. Will the Minister of State consider reading the second part of your script at the end? Is that acceptable?

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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Yes. The annual maintenance programme typically involves some clearance of vegetation and the removal of silt over a five-year cycle. Approximately 730 km of channels are maintained in the west and north-west regions annually. The schemes in the west region include the Moy scheme, the Boyle and Bonet schemes, the Corrib group schemes and the Maam flood relief scheme. I understand Deputy Fitzmaurice is keen to see more of this and more silt removal. I am well aware of the situation regarding the Shannon, where silt has built up. I know exactly what Deputy Fitzmaurice is saying. We have to find ways to address this quickly. As I said earlier, a total of 300 areas are being investigated and examined, and plans are being put in place for them. Up to 66 of these areas are affected by the Shannon. Out of this process, we will see action plans that will deal with the areas in question. The money for this work has been ring-fenced for the coming three or four years. However, we need to co-ordinate who does what. The Action Plan for Jobs process is instructive. We put in place what had to be done and assigned the work to each of the various agencies. We know that five or six agencies are affected in this case. We need to ensure the work gets done and that is what we are trying to do. The 66 areas affect each other. The idea is to co-ordinate that work and get the money spent as quickly as possible to try to prevent further problems. This work will be done along with the ongoing maintenance that involves cleaning out all the various drains and so on. I realise this is what Deputy Fitzmaurice wants to see done. I will try to move that as quickly as possible. There is more to the reply and I will read it into the record later.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State for his reply. It is the first sign of positivity I have seen since coming in here. At least the Minister of State recognises and understands the problem.

We have a problem in Europe for the simple reason that the water framework directive is hitting the habitats directive head-on. We could have the best will in the world and the greatest people in the world in the OPW. However, they are still being shafted by three or four crowds and that is a problem. The Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht needs to put her head above the parapet and tell those responsible in the National Parks and Wildlife Service and all the other groups to pull back and let the OPW take charge of a difficult and dangerous situation.

The work of voluntary groups in communities throughout the country has been phenomenal. However, a certain fear remains. I spoke to engineers from my local authority last weekend. They are afraid to call for help in case something goes wrong and someone gets hurt. If that happens, there will be a problem. We need to ensure that we change something because there are many good people involved. I refer, for example, people who bring diggers out and who would do whatever it takes in an emergency to help their people and their country. We need to facilitate these individuals. A council engineer should not have to look over his shoulder sweating about whether something happens.

The Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine needs to get involved. We have brought in the green low-carbon agri-environment schemes. That is fine. At present, a farmer could decide to plant 1,000 m of hedges a mile down his field. However, there could be 500 m of trees adjacent to the road that could kill someone because they are rotten and could fall. We need to introduce something that is constructive. For example, if a farmer plants 500 sq. m in a field, he should be able to cut 500 sq. m if other trees are going to be a danger to people. Any tree over 6 ft. high located along a main road is a danger, particularly in view of what I saw in the aftermath of Storm Desmond at the weekend.

GLAS should include arrangements for cleaning water channels rather than only for making a habitat that a farmer is going to destroy in five years' time because he does not get the basic payment scheme qualification. We need to start doing constructive things that will help. It would save money at the end of the day. Ultimately, houses that are flooded cost insurance firms or the Government or else the cost comes out of people's pockets. We need a little joined-up thinking between the relevant people to ensure that the various Departments are set aside and that one person or group takes charge. To be honest, we must to cut to the chase. The biggest problem is that when flood goes and the sun comes out, the memory of it seems to disappear. We have to cut to the chase or else no one will be living in the west because they will only be drowned out of it.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I agree. As usual, Deputy Fitzmaurice talks a considerable amount of sense. There is an issue with regard to good samaritan legislation and allowing people to do certain work when they are genuinely trying to do the right thing. It should give them a little protection. That is in place and it is designed to help people to do as outlined. There is always a fear, especially when it comes to water and flooding, that if we alleviate it in one place, it can cause a problem somewhere else. That is the danger when it comes to a quick-fix or short-term solution.

I know Deputy Fitzmaurice appreciates that we need to get the long-term planning right. We have seen many cases in the United Kingdom where money was spent and wasted and where what was attempted did not work. There are two issues. The first is what we can do in the short term to alleviate some of the problems. The second is what we can do in the long term to prevent them from happening in the first instance.

The most important question is the allocation of money. There is a ring-fenced fund of €430 million. I accept this does not help anyone who is suffering today. We know that we will need approximately €1 billion in total in the coming seven, eight or ten years to solve this problem for most people, in other words, to alleviate the danger of flooding. A total of €430 million is set aside for the coming four years. That is being spent in a co-ordinated way. The Minister of State, Deputy Simon Harris, has taken a co-ordinating role across all Government agencies. That money will be spent properly. The plans are well worked out and there are no knock-on effects for the next person. However, we also need increase what we can do to prevent short-term flooding in the coming years.

I agree with another point made by Deputy Fitzmaurice. I agree that a review of existing schemes such as GLAS could be useful. We are spending the money already. We should see whether these schemes can be adapted to allow for a little more common sense, for example, when it comes to danger on the roads or where trees are falling into rivers and ditches and so on. All we need is a little co-ordination and common sense. I will certainly raise that issue directly. The issue of trees on roads is something I get involved in personally because it makes total sense. We know of many cases where trees are rotten because of ivy and so on. We know they need to come out. Again, if someone needs permission they should not be in danger for not obeying the law by cutting down trees. What we do not want is for this to be abused and for trees to be cut left, right and centre to allow for greater use of land. It should only happen along roads. We should be clear on that. Certainly, we will work on that as well.

A number of schemes are in place. We are paying out money. Some of the money is European and some of it is our own. Perhaps we can see whether these can be adapted to facilitate or solve two problems with one budget. That is what Deputy Fitzmaurice is trying to say. It is something in which I will take a personal interest. I will try to work on that as well.