Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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2. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills the status of the programme for divestment of patronage; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [44042/15]

Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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I ask the Minister for an update on the divestment programme to which she has alluded.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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The programme for Government gives a commitment to move towards a more pluralist system of patronage for our schools. In this context, the Government established a Forum on Patronage and Pluralism in the Primary Sector. The forum advised on how the education system can provide a sufficiently diverse number and range of primary schools catering for all religions and none and on the practicalities of transferring patronage of primary schools where it is appropriate.

Following surveys of parents in 43 areas, there was sufficient parental demand supporting change in 28 of these areas. To date, eight new primary schools have opened under the patronage divesting process. I have made it very clear that I am frustrated with the slow pace of progress in this area and that I am anxious to work with everyone involved to ensure we deliver new options for parents in the remaining 20 areas as quickly as possible, and certainly within the next couple of years.

To reinvigorate the patronage divesting process, I recently met the Catholic bishops and yesterday I met representatives from Education and Training Boards Ireland, ETBI. I have also arranged to meet representatives from Educate Together and the Church of Ireland next week. I am working with the main stakeholders to advance alternative choices for 2016 and beyond. I am willing to provide further updates to the Deputy as this work progresses and after I have had a chance to conclude the current series of meetings with the bodies involved.

Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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By the Minister's own admission, this has been a very frustrating process and we would all share that frustration because there is a need to move to a more pluralist education system. I very much welcome the engagement the Minister is having with the various stakeholders in this process. While eight primary schools have been delivered to date in this respect, I believe the Minister would recognise that they do not go anywhere near meeting the demand that exists. Will she indicate what she is hoping to achieve from those negotiations? Are we seeking to put in place a five-year plan for the next Government to move forward on this issue? Unless we continue to knock on the doors of the stakeholders, so to speak we will continue to be frustrated.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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The main purpose of the meetings is to find out the obstacles hindering divestment. There is a willingness in this respect at a macro level. Having listened to what Archbishop Martin said again this week, there is certainly such a willingness in the archdiocese of Dublin. Also, from my meetings with the people I have met so far, there is a willingness at that macro level. What I am being told, however, is that there are difficulties at local level. We wanted to get a sense of the issues that are making the process as slow as it is.

There will be a focus on the areas where there has been a survey of parents and where there is a wish to have divestment, namely, the areas that have not so far been successful in terms of divestment, to examine if there are practical issues we can address and then examine, on a broader basis, other parts of the country where there are opportunities possibly to divest. This involves reorganisation where, for example, there are a number of Catholic schools in a particular area and there is not an alternative, and it involves examining what we as a Department can do to assist in the process of identifying a way in which this can be done. People have a loyalty to their local school and that is often the issue. It is a matter of finding a way in which we can work with all the different patron bodies concerned to speed up the process.

Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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I agree that people have a loyalty to their local school. Unfortunately, in some cases, students are unable to attend that local school because of section 7(3)(c) of the Equal Status Act. I noted that the Minister indicated in the media this morning that she will remove rule 68 in January. That would be a very welcome move. Obviously, divestment will not address the issue of religious discrimination in schools. I would question why she would remove rule 68 without also addressing section 7(3)(c) of the Equal Status Act. If a student cannot get into a school, that is a big problem, but once a student gets into a school we need to ensure rule 68 is removed, which provides that religion is the most important subject in the curriculum. We are putting the cart before the horse. We need to address both issues at the one time.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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I do not disagree that we need to address the Equal Status Act and that it needs to be amended. We are examining in what way it could be amended to protect, for example, minority religions in terms of wanting to have their particular schools protected. If one is, for example, a member of the Jewish faith, a member of the Church of Ireland or a Muslim for that matter, if a school has to take in all the local children where the school is situated, it will not have that ethos protected. There has to be a way in which the legislation can be amended to take account of that and at the same time give some priority to children who live in close proximity to a school. Again, I am being direct in saying that I will not be doing that during the life of the current Government but I believe it is something that has to be addressed in the very near future.