Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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For some months we have been pointing out that Irish families with variable rate mortgages are being charged 2% more than their European counterparts. For example, on an average mortgage of €200,000, they are paying €4,000 more than somebody living in France or Germany. We have called repeatedly on the Government and the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, to get the banks to reduce these rates but, unfortunately, to no avail. Other than AIB which dropped its rates by 0.75%, no other bank has reduced its standard variable rate mortgage. The banks' response has been as inadequate as that of the Government. The mantra from the Minister is that competition will fix it. He has encouraged people to switch banks, but competition alone will not solve this ongoing crisis. Only 712 mortgage customers switched banks in 2015, allegedly from a pool of 100,000. That in itself represents the weak, competitive nature of the mortgage market in Ireland and also illustrates that the Government is suggesting a solution that it knows is not working. Even the Central Bank accepts that there is a problem, while the Minister has washed his hands of the matter. That is unfair and unjust on families who are paying €4,000 more per year than their European counterparts. He said he wanted to wait and see if competition between the banks would decrease the rates offered. Obviously, that wait and see approach is not working and I contend it will not work. It is even harder to stomach when people read that the Exchequer is enjoying unprecedented profitability, with various windfalls, while families are struggling to pay this extra €4,000 on top of what should be their normal mortgage repayments. Does the Tánaiste believe it is fair that banks are charging Irish customers a rate that is up to 2% higher, or €4,000 more per year, on their variable standard rate mortgages? Does she agree with the Central Bank that this is a major problem? Can she honestly say she agrees with the wait and see approach to the issue adopted by Government for close on 12 months?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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What I think is unfair on Irish families is that five years ago yesterday Fianna Fáil brought the troika into Ireland-----

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Back on message.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----and delivered desperate circumstances to many families across the country.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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Change the record.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Order, please.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I say to Deputy Barry Cowen-----

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste has been in government for five years.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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We cannot hear what is going on.

A Deputy:

Children, stop.

Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Members opposite will be going in with them.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I ask Members to, please, listen to the Tánaiste.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I agree with Deputy Barry Cowen that it has been a very difficult and long road for many Irish families. Those families who bought in the year or two before the crash generally had the benefit of tracker mortgages. In terms of what happened to the banks-----

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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They went bust, Joan.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----as we know, the banks were basically-----

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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Bust and they are still.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Please, Deputy.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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They were broken by the failure of the former Taoiseach and his Minister for Finance to take any action to safeguard them.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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What did you do?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I said-----

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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You said a lot but did nothing.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Through the Chair, please, Deputy.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Cleaning up the mess.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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When I appeared before the banking inquiry, I laid out what I had said and did. I gave very good advice to people. It is in everybody's interests that we have banks that are working.

John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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What is the Tánaiste going to do about the people with variable rate mortgages?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Deputy Barry Cowen spoke about people moving their mortgages from one bank to another, but what he did not address - I do not know if he is familiar with this - was the fact that for a number of years many banks offered customers deals with improved interest rates. I do not know whether the Deputy is recommending that people should consider or take these deals-----

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Tánaiste share that information with us please?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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They are advertised by all of the banks, particularly the two larger banking institutions where various deals have been negotiated. I am sure at a constituency level the Deputy must have dealt with people who have been exploring these deals and seeking advice on them. For many, it may not be the interest rate reduction to the level the Deputy is talking about, but many of the offerings would result in people's overall payments being reduced. The Deputy must have seen these deals being advertised by many of the banks.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Tánaiste share this information with the rest of the country? Is she telling me a 2% reduction is available?

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Please, Deputy, the Tánaiste has the floor.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Furthermore, as Deputy Barry Cowen knows, where people have issues and cannot cope with their mortgage repayments, we have a series of structures which we established-----

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, the courts. We know what they are - repossessions.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----including the Insolvency Service of Ireland and so on. However, I assume Deputy Barry Cowen is talking about people who are paying their mortgage but want a better deal on the interest rate charged.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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They deserve a better deal.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Deputy's suggestion is that they switch mortgage provider. As he pointed out correctly, not many people have availed of mortgage switching-----

A Deputy:

It costs money.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----but it is important that people seek better deals which have been and are available from a number of banks in changing terms over a period of years.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Last May the Tánaiste stated:

[Banks] would be extremely wise to consider their corporate responsibility in relation to people on variable rate mortgages. If the banks simply can't recognise they have some obligation to people in Ireland in the context of the bailout that they've enjoyed, there are other avenues to address this.

What was the Tánaiste saying? Is she informing the House and, by extension, the people that there is some secret deal among some of the banks that are offering rates of 2% less?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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No.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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We must face the facts. Last May, when the Tánaiste came out with her spin and empathy, at which she is very competent, as we saw in the shadow boxing associated with the rent and housing issue in recent weeks-----

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There is some shadow-boxing going on over there too.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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If Deputy Durkan does not mind-----

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Let us hear the Deputy, please.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Does the Tánaiste still realise or has she forgotten? Does she want to refer to the previous Government in every answer she gives in this Chamber?

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It will be a long time before the people forget.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Does she realise that the rate is 2 percentage points above the European average?

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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It is twice the European average.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I remind the Tánaiste that her former leader and predecessor-----

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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Remember him.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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-----came into this House after a summit in June 2012 and said there was a game changer-----

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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And it was.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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-----that he and the Taoiseach had achieved at a European summit when there would be-----

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Speaking of games-----

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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-----retrospective bank recapitalisation.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Government abandoned that trick last Christmas and it moved on to talk about selling AIB which would realise a profit because it is making money again. Why is it making money? It is because it charging 2 percentage points above the European average. That is what the Government is standing over and that is what it will be judged on.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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A question please, Deputy.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste can say all she likes, but her initial response to me was more of the Tesco advertisement material that Labour is preparing for the next election.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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For a party that announced to the national media-----

John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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It is twice the European average.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste has the floor.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----that it is not in the game at all and will not even be involved in government-----

Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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They are crying their eyes out in Sinn Féin already.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----it was a fitting announcement on the fifth anniversary of Fianna Fáil bringing the troika into Ireland-----

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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Here we go again.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----that it has said, "And by the way, lads, we're taking our ball-----

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Heads go back five years. The Government parties will not win the general election with that carry-on.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----and we're leaving the field".

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste has the floor.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Fianna Fáil's strategy spokesperson said-----

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Government Members will be judged on their own performance.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----"We're taking the ball lads and we're leaving the field".

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Sorry, Deputies, we cannot have this carry-on.

Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Labour Party is at 7%.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Kelleher-----

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Is the Deputy asking me to respect a party-----

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I ask Deputy Kelleher to lower the-----

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----which claims to be a vital force in Irish politics but says it will not be in government-----

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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She should respect the people who have been ripped off by the banks.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----and it is not running to be in government?

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Tánaiste please respond to the question, which is that people are paying 2 percentage points above the European average?

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Please-----

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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And-----

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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We cannot-----

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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What has the Government done about it? Sweet FA.

Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Labour will not even be in the Dáil, let alone in government.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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We cannot hear what is going on. The Tánaiste to resume.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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What we have done in government is that we have-----

Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Seven percent.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----nearly 2 million people at work, including many of the people-----

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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With all due respect, I did not ask her about that.

Kevin Humphreys (Dublin South East, Labour)
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The Deputy does not want to hear it, does he?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Deputy does not want to hear it.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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With all due respect, a Leas Cheann Comhairle-----

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Please-----

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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-----would the Tánaiste for once answer a question she was asked?

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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If we lower the noise level, we might get some answers.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Order, please, from everybody.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Deputy is obviously not interested in any answers.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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No, the Tánaiste is not interested in answering the question.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Cowen, please.

Kevin Humphreys (Dublin South East, Labour)
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He should behave himself.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Listen, Barry, anger is not a policy.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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It got used for five years.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It has Labour at 7%.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Anger is not a policy and if Deputy Cowen is interested rather than trying to make some hay and cheap political capital out of people in mortgage difficulties, he should actually address the issue.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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Blame is not a policy either.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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There are enough histrionics-----

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste does not do histrionics.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----from Deputy Cowen now to fill the Abbey Theatre any night.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste to conclude now, please.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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So he should just lay off. His colleague beside him has said-----

Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste sat over there for 14 years.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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She loves the blame game.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----Fianna Fáil is taking the ball and walking off the pitch. It will not be involved in government, so what are we to believe about any contribution Fianna Fáil Deputies try to make?

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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What about the people who are paying 2 percentage points above the European average?

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The game changer is a blame game changer.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What are we supposed to believe?

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Would the Tánaiste like to address the question?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If the Deputy is gracious enough to give me the opportunity to address it, of course I will address it.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Eventually, thank you.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Eventually, after the Deputy's histrionics.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There is a time limit on all sides.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Will the Deputy lay off the histrionics?

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Will the Tánaiste answer the question?

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste is the queen of histrionics.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is not for me; it is for the people who are paying-----

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If he wants an answer, he just has to shut up for a while and listen to the answer.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Tánaiste. The time has-----

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Leas Cheann Comhairle should ask the Tánaiste to withdraw that.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I call Deputy McDonald. Order, please.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste did not answer, by the way.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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We have experienced the largest jump in rent since 2007.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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She is consistent if nothing else.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy McDonald has the floor.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Ireland is now one of the most expensive places in which to rent in Europe. Last year the average increase in rent was 9.3% - it was 9.7% outside Dublin. Rents have returned almost to the level they were at the peak of the housing bubble. Individuals and families throughout the country are already struggling to keep a roof over their heads and yet the Government is unwilling to intervene in the market unless, of course, it is to give tax breaks and incentives to developers. There are no breaks for ordinary families.

The Government promised rent certainty and rent control. All the Minister, Deputy Kelly, could deliver was a two-year rent freeze, which in reality is just a delayed rent review. It has also resulted in an immediate increase in rent for some. The Government promised investment in social housing. The Minister, Deputy Kelly, boasted of a tenfold increase in social housing build, but let us be clear that is a tenfold increase from 20 houses.

This is a case of far too little and much too late. The reality is that the Labour Party has sided with Fine Gael against struggling families. For families who had hoped to own a home, that hope is fading. Labour promised not to introduce, ironically, water charges, but it did that. Today we hear that the Government intends stopping local authority tenants from having the right to buy their homes if they have not paid the water charge. That is some record.

The Labour Party's approach to housing is like its approach to water charges. It folds and adopts Fine Gael policy. It has failed tenants, it has failed families and its policies have created incredible hardship. Is it not now time to go back to the drawing board and deliver what it promised, which was rent control, rent certainty and security for tenants? Is it not time to revisit the things it promised to block, specifically water charges?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I suppose Sinn Féin could be accused of folding the cards and running back to Westminster on the issue of welfare reform.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Far from it.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is what it chose to do. Hopefully from its point of view it will not hear about it until sometime after the elections in different parts of this island. Deputy McDonald has a bit of a cheek to talk about people folding when Sinn Féin Members are the champions of it as they have shown again this week.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Government backs us.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The only solution to housing in this country following the huge collapse in building following the difficulties the country had and which now thankfully we are exiting, is to actually build more housing. The heart of the Government's housing proposal is to build more units through a variety of mechanisms. This is under way as we speak in every part of the country. Is it under way as quickly as I would like? Frankly, no. It has taken us a long time to, for instance, regenerate the housing departments in various local authorities that had gone out of business largely because the previous Government relied entirely on rented housing.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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No. There were 15,000 social houses.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Right now throughout the country-----

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Waffle.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----there are significant allocations to every local authority to recommence the building of social houses.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Second, we have NAMA committed to building a significant number of affordable and social housing, which has already started. Third, we have the recent announcement of the further investment being provided in respect of a further 1,500 units by the Strategic Investment Fund. All of this means we have under way the biggest housing programme ever undertaken in Ireland

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste has gone beyond the beyond altogether.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I understand and I share Sinn Féin's desire to see houses being built, both affordable houses and houses for social housing and for rent, throughout the country. That is a common view shared by everybody in the House. That is what we are actually doing.

I was present this week at a very nice handing-over ceremony in my constituency, where the first set of new houses will be handed over to a number of families before Christmas.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

How many?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Forty-four.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Emergency accommodation.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste should put that in her canvass card.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Another seven houses will be handed over after Christmas.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is about 160 people.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is in addition to what Deputy McDonald and I discussed on many occasions, namely, ending the practice of voided houses being closed up.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Give me a break. There are 3,000 voids nationally.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In Dublin City Council that has resulted in hundreds of families being housed this year. The Deputy might not check the facts but I invite him to go and check the facts.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I did.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In my area, Fingal County Council has reduced the practice of houses being boarded up-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste should introduce rent certainty.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Government has a 30,000 cap.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----when they become vacant to a very small number, less than 35, but one needs to repair houses and that is all now done within six months.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What about the 30,000 cap?

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Please. This is Deputy McDonald's question.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am happy to say that houses are one of the most important commitments of this Government. We have supplied the funding. I want to see the councillors on all the county councils co-operate with county managers around the country to get houses built.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

You want them to do your job.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In some cases councillors have delayed the building of houses-----

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Dear God, blame the councillors.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----through, in some cases, spurious objections to planning and other issues. Everyone agrees with proper planning concerns but some councillors and parties must cut to the chase-----

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Labour has no councillors anyway.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----and co-operate with councils to build houses.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste is happy to say that housing is one of the most important commitments of this Government.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I suggest to the Tánaiste that she and her band of merry men from Labour and Fine Gael are the only people who are happy with this issue.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy should talk to the people who got the houses.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

From listening to the Tánaiste's responses this morning the message from Government on variable rate mortgages seems to be to shop around. On the issue of social housing, reference was made to a tenfold increase. Twenty by ten is 200. That is the height and scale of the Government's ambition. The average rent in Dublin now is in excess of €1,400.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is for a three-bed house.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste's answer to that, it seems, is to turn a blind eye and cross her fingers. She went on at length about voids. There are still 3,000 voids across the State. In other words, the Government's policy in respect of housing is nothing more than waffle.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Hear, hear.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is recycled statements, rhetoric, the politics of blaming everybody else - councillors, homeless agencies, campaigners - whoever is at hand to off-set the blame, but the Government refuses to take responsibility on these matters.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is what your people did. Sinn Féin cannot govern its own members.

Colm Keaveney (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Take a deep breath, Bernard.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is the reality, and the Government has set that position out with glorious clarity here today.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy. Could she ask a question please?

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Could the Tánaiste please answer my question, which revolves around rent certainty? Is the Government still captivated by the notion that it cannot interfere in the market?

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Are you still captivated by Gerry?

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

God help the market. Is the Tánaiste still captivated by that logic, the logic of her Fine Gael partners in government or will the Government move to do something substantive that offers a remedy for people who rent, and afford real rent certainty and security for them in their homes?

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Go raibh maith agat. The Tánaiste to reply.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The economic content of the argument Deputy McDonald has just put forward is completely absurd.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Really.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It means that however busy the Deputy is, she is not in a position to get familiar with what is happening in housing.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Your are deluded.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I regret that.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

You are deluded.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If we were talking about market solutions, we would-----

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There are thousands of people in emergency accommodation.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----be looking at the Fianna Fáil solution.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

You are deluded.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Fianna Fáil solution before the party left the pitch was to leave housing to the private market.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Families are living in tents.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We built 15,000 social units. The Government has built 180.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Instead, both Fine Gael and Labour in government got the largest investment programme for housing in the history of the State.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

They sat on their hands. The Tánaiste is deluded.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Where is the money for that programme coming from? It is coming from the taxes people in this country are paying and from the country's renewed capacity to borrow-----

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

No wonder you are at 7%.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

----at cheap rates of interest. I do not know why the Deputy is in denial, because all over the country, county councils have been given some of the largest allocations in their individual histories to build more houses for social purposes.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

You are deluded, Tánaiste. You are in cuckoo land.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In addition, on the finance side, we have a whole series of initiatives undertaken by NAMA, the NTMA and the strategic investment funds to get affordable housing.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

NAMA. Do not go there.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy McDonald should remember that in all of this a very important group of people are the ones who have now been working for a number of years, who are renting but want to buy.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

She has gone cuckoo.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Does the Tánaiste live on the same planet as the rest of us?

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

NAMA is an asset manager. It is not-----

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If, for instance, the Deputy were to visit my constituency-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I regularly visit the Tánaiste's constituency.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----she would see large numbers of affordable houses now being built.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Look at its title, National Asset Management Agency.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Tánaiste, your are in cuckoo land.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This is Deputy McDonald's question. Please.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

You have gone cuckoo, Tánaiste.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Sinn Féin seems to be in denial. We have now provided rent certainty for two years.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

You are in la la land.

John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Rents have gone up.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

NAMA is evicting people.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Please. This is-----

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

You are in la la land.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Are you a baby or are you just acting like a baby?

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This is Leaders' Questions. Please. Deputy McDonald has asked a question. The Tánaiste should be allowed to conclude.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Give the man a little bit of music. He needs his afternoon nap.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

You are in la la land, missus.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Look at what she believes.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Did Deputy McDonald spend an extra amount of time in the United States and she just not have time to visit anywhere in Ireland to see what is happening on the ground? Did she go and look?

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Clarity is not your forte.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I invite Deputy McDonald to visit housing estates in Fingal and have a look at the building that is under way.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste might answer the question.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Some of the Independent Members who sit behind Deputy McDonald were so taken with them that they decided to occupy them. There you are.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is a cop-out.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I call Deputy Thomas Pringle on behalf of the Technical Group.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

A comment was made about the Independents.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Could Members please allow Deputy Pringle to ask a question? I have called Deputy Thomas Pringle.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste should withdraw that remark. She made an allegation against the Independents. It is absolutely outrageous.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Let the Independents have their say now. I call Deputy Pringle.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In recent weeks much anger and concern have been expressed about fishing by factory super trawlers off the west and north-west coast. This morning there are three factory super trawlers fishing off the Donegal coast. One vessel has a Lithuanian flag, another vessel has a Dutch flag and the third vessel has a German flag. All of the vessels are more than likely owned by a single Dutch company. They have been happily fishing away while small inshore Irish fishing vessels cannot get quota and are not allowed to fish at all. They are forced to stay at home in ports all around Donegal. Everyone in the Irish fishing community knows that the EU stole our fishing stocks when we joined the EU in 1973.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Hear, hear.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Successive Governments have refused to attempt to address that wrong for fear of upsetting the EU. Today, more than 1.1 million tonnes of fish are caught in Irish waters every year and less than 20% of that is caught by Irish fishermen. The Government's only response to the situation is to encourage foreign vessels to land their catch in Irish ports, hoping they can be processed here, rather than trying to undo the wrong that has been done to our fishing communities over many years.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Hear, hear.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Those vessels will not land in Irish ports, they will land in Holland, and the Government's only option is to hope that the Dutch authorities will accurately report what they have caught. Some of this company's vessels have been exposed for fishing illegally in recent years, catching fish to order and falsifying logbooks in order to under-declare their catches. Since January this year there has been a ban on discards for the pelagic fishery, meaning that those vessels can no longer dump fish at sea for which they do not have quota. The Lithuanian factory trawler, MFV Margiris, only has a quota for horse mackerel in Irish waters, yet from talking to fishermen I know that it is practically impossible at this time of year to catch only horse mackerel when fishing off the west coast. One catches mackerel as well at the same time. Either they are dumping the mackerel at sea, which is illegal, or they are processing them on board and keeping them, which is also illegal.

If that was not bad enough, as I speak, a County Donegal fisherman is watching from his home as these vessels tow away his crab pots and take away his livelihood from him and his family. Will the Tánaiste immediately order the Naval Service to intervene to save this fisherman's livelihood and allow him to be able to maintain an income for his family? I have been in contact with the Sea-Fisheries Protection Authority and because of the weather conditions off the west coast, it has stated it is unsafe to board these vessels to inspect them at sea. Will the Tánaiste order these vessels to a safe harbour now in order that they can be inspected by Irish authorities?

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Do not forget the fishermen in Howth.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Sea-Fisheries Protection Authority, which is the independent regulator responsible for the enforcement of the State's sea-fishery regulations, has been aware, as the Deputy noted, of the European Union-registered Lithuanian-flagged fishing vessel, the Margiris, since it has entered into Irish waters. In keeping with standard practice for all vessels, it is being monitored continuously by the Naval Service. The vessel is operating within the Irish exclusive economic zone. Under the Common Fisheries Policy, any EU vessel can fish in any region's EU waters where it has a quota. This vessel has a quota entitling it to fish for species such as scad horse mackerel within EU waters and it is authorised to conduct fishing activity in this area. As with all vessels, it must record its catches and assess them against quotas in compliance with EU sea-fisheries legislation. The Margiris, and all vessels operating in Irish waters, are monitored continuously by the Naval Service through the fisheries monitoring centre at the naval base in Haulbowline using satellite vessel monitoring, the automatic identification system and the electronic reporting systems. The authority is committed to ensuring that EU quotas are fairly and sustainably managed continuously. This year, with the support of the Naval Service, there has been a prioritisation to implement the new landing obligation by all vessels operating within the Irish zone.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste has not addressed the direct questions I asked of her.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Again.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As I speak, these vessels are destroying the livelihood of an Irish fisherman from County Donegal, who depends on the gear he has at sea to try to feed his family and keep his vessel going. It would be a simple matter for the Government to tell the Naval Service to intervene with that vessel and to stop it from destroying the livelihoods of Irish fishermen. This is happening as I speak. The fisherman in question has tried to contact these vessels by radio to inform them that they are towing through his gear but they will not take his call and will not respond to him.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Call in the Navy.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It does no good for Naval Service personnel to be sitting in Haulbowline watching a computer screen showing these vessels.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Hear, hear.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Naval Service should be out there now intercepting these vessels to protect fishermen's livelihoods. The response simply is not good enough and this issue must be addressed urgently.

In addition, the online pressure group, Uplift, has created a petition with more than 30,000 signatories condemning the actions of such supertrawlers off the Irish coast. All along the coast, fishermen are sickened because they must sit at home and watch these vessels continue to fish in front of their homes while the Government is standing idly by and is allowing this to happen. Last summer, a Danish vessel in the Irish Sea had penalty points imposed on it by that highly effective agency, the Sea-Fisheries Protection Authority. However, the Danish Government refused to add those penalty points to the vessel's licence.

John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Scandalous.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It ignored completely the Common Fisheries Policy rules in a flagrant breach and yet Ireland does nothing. The Government continues to allow this to happen. Will the Government today protect Irish fishermen by ensuring these vessels are held to account for towing away the gear of this County Donegal fishermen?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

These issues obviously are extremely important to the fishing community around the coast and, as I stated, the Sea-Fisheries Protection Authority is the independent regulator responsible for the enforcement of the State's sea-fisheries regulation. I told the Deputy that the vessel to which he referred, and any other vessels involved, are being monitored continuously by the Naval Service. In addition, basic regulation changes to fisheries policy involving access or restriction to fishing opportunities come within the sole competency of the European Union. I will take the Deputy's concerns to the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, who, as the Deputy is aware, is extremely active on these issues with the Commission and various other EU agencies. However, only the EU Commission can propose changes and any such proposal must be adopted-----

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste has missed the point. It is time for action.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----under the co-decision process of the European Parliament and the EU Council.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Bring in the Navy and tell them to stop.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Please.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is simple.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

When will the Government stand up to the EU?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Consequently, member states affected and stakeholders-----

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Where is AK47 now?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----can bring in non-discriminatory measures for the conservation and management of fish stocks within the 12-mile zone, subject to compliance with policy.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Bring in AK47.

A Deputy:

Send in a carrier.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

He bottled out of appearing on Vincent Browne's programme as well.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Quiet please.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

However, access to this is set down in the regulation and it cannot be changed by an individual member state.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What the Government can do is to protect Irish fishermen. The Tánaiste will wash her hands of them.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What I will do is I will raise the Deputy's concerns - I acknowledge he has raised them already - with the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine.

John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Government is not going to do anything about it. It cannot, or will not, do anything.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As the Deputy is aware, detailed talks are due to take place next month-----

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Will the Government stop raising its eyes to heaven and do something about it?

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Mathews is an expert now.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----and the Minister will raise these issues with the EU Commission, because in terms of regulation and in terms of authority, these matters must be agreed.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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The Government is raising its eyes to heaven again.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Please.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I would like to be able to tell the Deputy that EU Commission rules literally have no effect in Ireland-----

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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They are not working; send in the Navy.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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When will we stand up to the EU? The Dutch can do it.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----and that we can ignore them but in fact, we must go back to the Commission.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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Action, not words.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Government must talk to it about how best to protect local fishermen, as the Deputy suggests-----

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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It will tell us how high to jump.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
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A family's livelihood is being destroyed right now, as the Tánaiste speaks.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----as opposed to the supertrawlers to which he referred.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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This is a real phoney war.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Do Members ever get Leaders' answers?