Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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6. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Social Protection her plans to correct the discriminatory and inequitable discrepancy between the treatment of persons in receipt of a non-contributory pension and a contributory pension regarding the entitlement to receive a pension while abroad (details supplied). [33143/15]

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Tánaiste examine the discriminatory position whereby people who are on non-contributory pensions cannot travel abroad for longer than two weeks without suffering the loss of their pensions? There are occasions when people are visiting relatives abroad, in Australia or other countries, for extended periods, perhaps when someone is ill, and they lose their payments as a consequence.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The contributory State pension is based on contributions paid and credited over the course of the pensioner’s working life. Receipt is not subject to means testing or residence in Ireland. EU regulations treat such social insurance-based payments across the EU as being exportable. This is the insurance-based payment.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The non-contributory pension is the problem.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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In other words, payment is not subject to residence in the country in which the contributions were paid in the first instance.

On the other hand, the non-contributory State pension is a means-tested payment based upon habitual residence in Ireland. It is a scheme to help older people living in Ireland to avoid poverty, particularly those who have no other provision for old age. There is no requirement for this payment to be exportable under EU rules. Indeed, it would be highly unusual to consider that persons living abroad should have entitlement to this pension. Issues that would arise in this regard include who would be eligible for the payment in the first instance, as well as the appropriate rates payable to persons living abroad in view of the varying costs of living in other countries.

The State pension is generally not payable while the claimant is absent from the State. However, if someone is going abroad, as the Deputy mentioned, for illness or family purposes, they should notify the Department before their departure because there is an element of flexibility about this. In the case of people who go abroad on holiday for more than two weeks, the pension payment will normally be reinstated and may be backdated for a period of up to 13 weeks on their return to this country. However, payment is not allowed for repeated long-duration absences.

I am not considering any changes to the legislation governing this scheme so as to enable a person in receipt of the non-contributory State pension to leave the State for indefinite periods and continue to receive the pension. The consequences for the State would be very serious.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I was never considering that it would be for an indefinite period and I welcome the fact that people can contact the Department and ask.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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They should do so.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Their children in Australia - they also have grandchildren there - paid for their flights. However, they could not take the decision to travel, given that without a payment, they would have been unable to pay their rent and other standing charges for a period. They were hoping to go for three to four weeks. Given that so many people have emigrated of late, will the Minister extend the period from two weeks to four weeks and continue the payment, if the proper documentation is presented? I accept the Minister's arguments. I know of grandparents who travelled to visit their daughter, who then gave birth and experienced complications, and they want to extend their stay but have no income with which to pay their bills such as rent. Will the Minister extend the two-week period in the case of documents being presented, not the 13 weeks she mentioned?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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As I said, if the Deputy will give me the details of the case, we can check it. If the people go to their local office and explain the circumstances, we have the capacity to be flexible. I have to be very honest with the Deputy and clear on this. The requirement to be habitually resident in Ireland as part of the social welfare system was introduced as a qualifying condition for certain social assistance schemes and child benefit with effect from 1 May 2004. The effect of the condition is that a person whose habitual residence is elsewhere would not normally be entitled to social welfare assistance or child benefit on arrival in Ireland. In many cases, such a person would not be entitled to export it. While I understand the Deputy has a particular set of circumstances in mind regarding Irish people who have been living and working in Ireland, we live in an EU which has habitual residence conditions. Given that our pension payments, notwithstanding the earlier discussion, are among the highest in the EU, the Deputy would be opening us to a huge number of people coming from other EU countries to claim non-contributory pensions. It would be very difficult to afford it. The Deputy must be very careful about it.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I was being very careful in my second contribution to say that I am asking for an extension from two weeks to four weeks, which is logical if a person is travelling to Australia, especially an elderly person travelling to meet relatives. I also asked that it be on the production of certain documents. One could set conditions whereby the standard practice of two weeks is acceptable but people who can show the reason for travel and the duration will not be penalised. This is how they see it. Although people can apply for their pensions to be backdated when they return, there is no guarantee, and this is one of the problems. If one travels for four weeks, one might get payment for only two weeks. For pensioners, this can have a major impact regarding their bills.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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We have much flexibility and I advise the Deputy to pass the details of the case to my office and to bear in mind that the State is constantly sued or threatened with legal proceedings if we do not strictly enforce habitual resident conditions. There have been recent cases of people who had spent some time in Ireland but were caring for people in another part of the EU claiming the carer's allowance, a means tested benefit. I cannot give an undertaking that we will step down from EU rules that would potentially leave us open, due to the high level of our social welfare payments, to significant claims over a period of time by people seeking to claim in Ireland.