Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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4. To ask the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine the percentage of suckler cow farmers who have herds of ten cows or less; the percentage of these who have applied for the beef data and genomics scheme 2015; his views on the low uptake of this scheme by smaller herd owners; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [26201/15]

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Based on data that has already been provided to me, it would seem that a small percentage of owners of small herds have got involved in the genomics scheme. Could the Minister give some indication as to the percentage of herd owners who have less than ten suckler cows and what percentage of those have applied to join the beef data and genomics scheme?

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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According to the most up-to-date figures available from my Department's animal identification and movement system, the total number of herds that have ten or less beef-breed female cows on their holding is 38,171 and this represents 52% of all herds with female beef-breed cows. Of course, these figures refer to farmers with significantly varying demographic profiles and include thousands of farmers with enterprises on their farms other than suckler farming. In many cases, suckler farming will not be the main farm enterprise practised on the holding.

There is a cohort of farmers within these figures who, for various reasons, do not engage with schemes for the suckler herd where additional defined action is required on their part, such as was the case under the suckler cow welfare scheme and for the pilot beef genomics scheme last year. The reasons include the part-time nature of many of these farmers who keep less than ten cows, or the fact that suckler farming is not their main farm enterprise.

Therefore, when looking at the profile of applicants under the Beef Data and Genomics Programme, BDGP, or similar schemes, the relevant comparator is the profile of participants in previous schemes, such as the suckler cow welfare scheme and the 2014 beef genomics scheme. In that regard, I am satisfied that the profile of applicants under the new beef data and genomics scheme compares favourably with previous schemes for the suckler sector operated by my Department over the last decade or so.

Some 7,851 herds with ten suckler cows or less have applied for the beef data and genomics programme. This equates to 27% of the total number of applications received for the scheme, which is broadly proportionate to the level of participation in last year's suckler welfare scheme and the beef genomics scheme last year.

10 o’clock

What we have examined is whether there is any change in patterns in the type of suckler farmer applying to participate in schemes and the answer is that there has not. Approximately one third of the applicants have ten cows or fewer. Another one third have between ten and 20, while the commercial suckler cow farmers have more breeding cows. It is more or less the same proportionate breakdown we would have had under the suckler cow welfare scheme which was launched by the previous Government and that we have had under the beef genomics scheme to date. There has been no real change.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The fact that there has been no real change does not mean that it is right. Based on data the Minister has given me - the figures he has given me now are marginally different from the ones he gave me previously - it is interesting to note that only 22% of farmers - I think he said the figure was 24%, but I will not argue over 2% because he is arguing with himself over his own figures - have ten cows or fewer.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I am sorry; the figure is 27%.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The figure the Minister gave me previously was 22%.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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That may have been the figure under the previous-----

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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No.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I can give the Deputy the figures.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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On 26 May the Minister said that in the range of nought to ten, there were 39,605 herds. I was also informed by him that 8,677 herdowners had made applications. That works out at a figure of 22%, but I will accept the figure of 27%.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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There were late applications.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív has the floor.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I will give the Deputy the updated figures.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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That would be very useful, but we will accept the figure of 27%. On the same basis, in the case of farmers with 11 cows or more we are talking about, on average, 67% or 68% of those applying to participate in the scheme. It is obvious, therefore, that there is a massive difference in the percentage of farmers with ten cows or fewer who are applying.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I will come back to the Deputy.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister has given some reasons for this, but none of them stands up. It is a fantastic answer, but it is meaningless. Is the Minister concerned that the take-up of the schemes by smaller farmers is so low, particularly when the farm organisations kept telling small farmers that they would be looked after under Pillar 2?

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Small farmers are being looked after under Pillar 2, but they have to apply to participate in the schemes. We deliberately designed this scheme in favour of small farmers. That is why for the first ten animals a farmer receives nearly €100 per head. The figure is €80 per head after this. We deliberately tilted the scheme in favour of small farmers for the very reasons about which the Deputy is talking, unlike his approach to the suckler cow welfare scheme which did not deliberately discriminate in favour of those with small holdings. To be exact, in per hectare terms, it results in a payment of €142.50 on the first 6.6 ha compared to €120 thereafter. We are deliberately saying to farmers with smaller herds that we want to give them more money for their first ten animals, after which everybody receives €80.

In terms of the breakdown, I want to put the record straight because the Deputy constantly tries to paint me as someone who only looks after the big guy. If he considers the facts in terms of what we have done, he knows that that is inaccurate.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I will come back to the Minister.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The figure is 27% for farmers who have ten animals or fewer. The figure is 34% for farmers with between 11 and 20 animals; 19% for those with between 21 and 30 animals; 10% for those with between 30 and 40 animals; 5% for those witt between 40 and 50 animals; and less than 2.5% for those with between 50 and 60 animals. The biggest cohort, therefore, comprises those with between ten and 20 animals. The second biggest by far comprises those with fewer than ten. The biggest categories of applicant by far are those farmers who have 20 animals or fewer, but the Deputy does not want to accept the reality of the success of the scheme.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I am sorry, but we are over time.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister is a genius with figures. Obviously, a large number of the farmers fall into the category with the smallest number of animals. Let me give the Minister an example. There are 39,605 farmers in the nought to ten suckler cow range. There are 1,978 farmers who have between 41 and 50 animals. If every one of them was to apply - some 72% have applied - they would still not outweigh the 39,605 farmers with small herds. The manipulation of the percentages by the Minister is shameful. The reality is that in the case of those with more than 20 cows the average application rate is 68% to 70%. For smaller herdowners, the figure is 30%. For the Minister to say he is looking after small farmers is a blatant untruth. What does he intend to do to make the scheme attractive for small farmers? Will he confirm that the biggest of big farmers will receive the extra payment on the first ten cows just as the small farmer will?

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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As this is an area based payment, the same rules have to apply to everybody. On the first portion of a farm, 6.6 ha, a farmer receives the higher payment. That was deliberately changed by me to ensure we would favour small farmers.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The big guy gets it, too. If someone has 1,000 ha-----

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Please, Deputy; the Minister has the floor.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The big guy does get it, but, on average, he receives less per animal the more animals he has.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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For the first ten he gets-----

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister has the floor.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The reason the Deputy is uncomfortable is the scheme is starting to work.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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It is not working for small farmers. Less than 30%-----

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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A significant proportion of applicants either have fewer than ten or 20 animals. That amounts to two thirds of applicants. The Deputy does not like the reality because, like others, he said farmers would not apply to participate in the scheme, but they have done so and in huge numbers. Some 30,000 have applied and we are writing to all of them. In time the scheme will work, as people will see.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Some 78% of herdowners have fewer than 20 cows.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I have to call the next question.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The only way to compare it is by comparing percentages of applicants.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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No.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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This is a voluntary scheme and farmers choose to apply. It not mandatory.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I am moving to the next question.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The reality is that two thirds of those who have decided to apply to participate in the scheme have fewer than 20 animals. That is a good result.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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They represent 80% of herdowners. It is farcical.