Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Paudie Coffey, for attending to take this matter. While he is a colleague from a neighbouring constituency and a good friend, I am disappointed the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs is not here.

An alarming and savage blow was announced yesterday morning when Tusla, the Child and Family Agency, informed ACCORD, the Catholic Marriage and Preparation Counselling Service, of the cutting of its total annual funding of €378,000. It is a savage blow five months on. To make it worse, the Tusla letter bizarrely informed ACCORD that its decision to cut the funding is retrospective and took effect from 1 January 2015, notwithstanding that the letter is dated 7 May 2015. It is scandalous. This organisation does a great deal of good work throughout the country and the timing of the cut is very strange. Tusla cited the delay in the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy James Reilly, approving the budget as the reason for the retrospectivity of the cut.

Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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The Minister has now arrived.

Paudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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I got him in for Deputy McGrath.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I am delighted. Will I start again?

Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Whatever the Deputy thinks.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I am in the Chair's hands.

Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Start again.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I welcome the Minister. Tusla, the Child and Family Agency, informed ACCORD, the Catholic Marriage and Preparation Counselling Service, that €378,000 was being withdrawn from its funding for 2015. Bizarrely, the Tusla letter informed ACCORD that its decision to cut the funding is retrospective and took effect from 1 January 2015, notwithstanding that the letter is dated 7 May 2015. These are very strange goings on. I am glad the Minister is here as Tusla cited the delay in the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy James Reilly, approving the budget for the retrospectivity of the cut. Where was the Minister and why did he not sign off on the funding? This is scandalous carry on. Other agencies have also been affected.

This has occurred against the background of a staggering donation of $8 million from Atlantic Philanthropies. I wonder what is happening there. On the website of Atlantic Philanthropies, it states that its explicit aim is to fund groups "to work inside the machinery of Government" to advance its ideological agenda. It is a bold statement on its website. That agenda is in direct opposition to ACCORD's stated view on the upcoming referendum. This is unprecedented and makes the controversy surrounding former advisor Frank Flannery and access to Fine Gael and government corridors look like a goldfish bowl by comparison. It is unreal that Atlantic has that statement on its website. The funding is coming from outside organisations. I welcome the funding Atlantic Philanthropies has given to certain community projects, but this funding is completely off the radar and in support of agencies to interfere in a referendum process here.

As the Minister knows, ACCORD has seven centres nationally and in 2013 provided 50,959 counselling hours to 9,867 clients and 727 marriage preparation courses to 7,631 couples. At the same time, 32,139 children participated in its schools programme. Wonderful work has been done. While planning its work for this year and continuing its outreach services, it is told halfway through the year that its funding has been slashed. I did not think the Minister would be here, but I note that he said in October that the Department was going to boost Tusla's funding by €26 million. Does he know what he is doing or where he is? Does he know he is out of the Department of Health and in the Department of Children and Youth Affairs? Is he a spinning top? Does he know what a hames he made of health and does he want to do the same with the Child and Family Agency? Does he know the importance of that area? He is the same Minister who said after the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act was introduced that he would cut the funding of hospitals that did not participate and carry out the procedures he wanted. Is that not threatening, bullying and intimidating behaviour intended to get his way at all costs?

I put it to the Minister that this attack could not have come at a worse time for the Government's "Yes" campaign and is a despicable attack on an agency. What is the message it sends to Catholic agencies and others which are doing tremendous work if the referendum is passed? They will have to go whistle for their money and will get nothing. The Government will not give it to them. The Minister said Tusla was to get an increase of €26 million, yet it is imposing cuts on this and many other agencies. I brought up Atlantic Philanthropies because I am very worried. I asked the Tánaiste this morning about the electoral commission because Atlantic Philanthropies have funded groups like the Irish Council for Civil Liberties to the tune of €7 million, Amnesty International Ireland to the tune of €5 million, Tusla to the tune of €8 million and GLEN to the tune of €4 million. That amounts to €24 million. All of these quangos and Government agents are doing the work of the "Yes" campaign in the referendum. It is interference and a despicable attack on a sovereign state which undermines what democracy is about: a free and unhindered vote of the people. The chickens have come home to roost and the genie is out of the bottle.

The Minister needs to stand up, measure up and restore this funding. The Minister and his Government colleagues need to put some manners on these organisations. These quangos are doing the work of the Government, at its bidding, because people are expecting promotions on State boards. They are protecting everything else and they are all interlinked.

Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Deputy McGrath will have another two minutes after the Minister's reply.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I hope I get a decent answer.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for affording me the opportunity to address this issue and I would like to clarify issues around the funding of ACCORD by Tusla, the Child and Family Agency.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I cannot hear the Minister.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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There has been much comment on this issue over the past 24 hours and much of it ill-informed. This Government is delivering the most comprehensive reform of policy and provision for children, young people and families in the history of the State and our commitment to continuing that work remains strong and resolute. Indeed, I must make my apologies to the House as I was delayed because I was in the other House, the Seanad, dealing with a new Bill which will end the practice of placing children and people under 18 years of age in adult prisons, either for detention or on remand. The reform continues. This Government is committed to strengthening and developing our child care, protection and welfare services. The Government has provided Tusla, the Child and Family Agency, with significant additional funding in 2015 to enable it deliver on its mandate, as Deputy McGrath has rightly pointed out.

Tusla has a total budget of €643 million in 2015, made up of €631 million in current funding and €12 million in capital. This increase of €34 million is a 5.3% increase on funding for the agency in 2014. This level of funding demonstrates clearly that despite the overall national budgetary constraints, this Government is strongly supporting the delivery of critically important reforms needed to support Ireland's children and families. Of course, this comes on the back of the worst recession this country has ever experienced. This additional funding will help drive key priorities in the reform of children and family services. Despite the increase in funding, Tusla has calculated that it still needs to make significant savings in 2015 and the announcement of a funding reduction to ACCORD is but one of a wide range of funding change announcements by Tusla over the past days. It should be remembered that Tusla funds in the region of 700 organisations around the country.

The establishment of Tusla has presented an opportunity to explore new approaches to meet the needs of the most disadvantaged children and families. Through a comprehensive scoping exercise across all services, Tusla has begun the process of identifying where the resources can be used to best effect and in a manner consistent with its mandate. Tusla is undertaking a restructuring of its existing funding allocation to ensure priority is given to counselling services that best support and promote the development, welfare and protection of children and effective functioning of families.

ACCORD provides a range of services in a number of areas. It provides marriage and relationship counselling services for people who are experiencing difficulties in their relationships. Quite separately, it provides marriage preparation courses for people who are getting married in the Catholic Church. In 2014, ACCORD received €1.992 million in core funding from Tusla and in 2015 it will receive funding in excess of €1.6 million.

Tusla will spend approximately €6 million this year on counselling services, including the provision of significant funding to ACCORD, which amounts to more than a quarter of the available funding. Tusla has determined that marriage preparation courses, which are paid for by couples, does not form part of its core mission. I am informed by Tusla that it does not provide funding to any other dedicated marriage preparation courses. Tusla is targeting available funding at its core mission, which is supporting and promoting the development, welfare and protection of children and the effective functioning of families.

The chief executive of Tusla, Mr. Gordon Jeyes, has made clear that the funding decisions of his executive, which were approved by the Tusla board, were in no way related to the marriage equality referendum. Anyone who suggests that the reduction in funding for ACCORD is in any way related to the referendum should remember that other organisations who support a Yes vote in the referendum have been the subject of reductions as well. I would draw the attention of Deputies to a letter from the chief executive of Barnardos in today's edition of The Irish Times.

At all times, Tusla has endeavoured to ensure, where funding adjustments are being applied, that they will not affect front-line services, overlap of services will be reduced, backroom functions will be streamlined and that the services received will be of the utmost quality as outlined in Tusla's business plan for 2015. I want to assure the House that, in furtherance of Government policy for child and family services, Tusla is working with service providers on managing their budgets and the delivery of services to children and families across the country.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Minister did not answer the questions. He did not refer to the €8 million that Tusla received from Atlantic Philanthropies. He did not respond to the fact that he said in October that he was giving €26 million extra to Tusla, yet here we are. He failed completely to address the situation. Tusla itself has stated the reason the cuts run out on 7 May is because the Minister did not sign off on the budgets. I asked him what he was doing and where he was. Was he as láthair? Was he ina chodladh? He has a job to do. Why did he wait until 7 May to implement this?

The Minister can gloss over the figures all he likes but-----

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Is é an Rialtas a thug an Teachta McGrath tacaíocht dó a bhí ina chodladh

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Nach maith an fear é an Aire. Was he in Tiobraid Árann? He is welcome to the Tipperary-Offaly border anytime, but the accountable place is here. He should not be quoting what Fergus Finlay writes in The Irish Times. He is the accountable line Minister. Fergus Finlay is not a Minister although at times one would think he was when he is pontificating and when is promoted to this board, that board and the other. It is all very unsavoury.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I must, with respect, ask the Deputy to withdraw that statement. That gentlemen is not here to defend himself.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It was the Minister who brought up his name.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I do not think Deputy McGrath should insult him in that way.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Minister brought his name into the equation.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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We should have a bit of fairness and a bit of equity.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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If I caused any offence by mentioning his name, I withdraw it.

Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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It is withdrawn.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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However, the Minister should withdraw his reference to him and his letter inThe Irish Times. It would be better for the Minister to do his job as Minister instead of readingThe Irish Times and the letters by Fergus Finlay and all his other supporters and cheerleaders promoting him and other people as well. Noel Whelan is another pundit. Should I say Mr. Whelan or maybe I should not mention his name at all? Let me say a pundit. I withdraw the name.

Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Deputy McGrath has mentioned a few names.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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A pundit on RTE recently said that Catholic agencies that would not tow the line on the Government referendum would have funding cut. I did not see any more. That was on prime time television. I watched it. Bhí mé ag éisteacht agus ag féachaint-----

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Ní raibh an Teachta ag éisteacht go maith.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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---- and it was loud and clear. That is what is going on.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputy McGrath is watching too much television.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I can tell Deputy Wallace that I watch very little television.

This is an outrageous cut, given it is four and a half months late. The other organisations are also trying to plan their year. The Minister said that Tusla will cut back on overlaps and everything else. It will and it is spending the money well and doing some wonderful work. This is true of other agencies as well. However, to announce a cut in the budget at this time, when the Minister said last October that he was giving it €26 million extra suggests there is something wrong with the Minister. Is he mixed up or confused? Does the Minister have any word at all? Some €26 million extra was announced, but funding is being cut. The Minister is saying that he increased the money by 5%. The sum of €26 million would be much more than 5%. It would be a handsome increase of over one third.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Sílim go bhfuil an t-am thart.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Minister seems to be as lost in this Department as he was in the last one. It is very disappointing and disquieting. I am glad that the Minister made it from the Seanad to this House to reply but he might as well have stayed there because he did not answer any of the questions.

Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I ask the Minister to make a concluding statement. He has two minutes.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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There is an adage that says that there are none so blind as those who will not see and none so deaf as those who will not listen.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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They all saw and heard what the Minister told them in October.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Gabhaim leithscéal an Teachta, lena thoil. I did reference the extra money. I said in October that Tusla would get €26 million extra. It got €26 million extra and it got extra money in capital as well. I did reference that.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Where did it come from? Why the cuts?

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I explained to Deputy McGrath that notwithstanding the additional money, the pressures that it is under mean that it has to make cuts across the system. The Deputy may not understand that but that is the reality in all budgets. As a result of increasing demand-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I am able to add two and two.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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We have a growing population. We have one of the youngest populations in Europe. That is to our strength and that is to our future and I welcome the fact.

Deputy McGrath alleges that I will not give any money to ACCORD after the referendum. I have made it clear that it is in receipt of €1.6 million this year and that remains the case.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Provided they vote the right way.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I want to put on the record of this House that my Department and I value very much the counselling and mediation services ACCORD provides to married couples. The same applies to Tusla and that is why it continues to fund ACCORD. I have made it clear that pre-marriage counselling and training is not the core mission of Tusla.

Bishop Nulty stated on radio that the money allowed ACCORD to do a little extra in terms of the provision of pamphlets and manuals. We would prefer not to have to cut anyone's budget, but this is the reality.

The Deputy alluded to Atlantic Philanthropies. I want to ensure no message from this House in any way undermines or disrespects the wonderful work Atlantic Philanthropies has done in this country.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I acknowledged that.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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It is very much involved in early prevention for families that need support.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It is interfering in the democratic process. It is blatant.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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As for the Deputy's other allegation that I did not sign off on the budget because bhí mé as láthair-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I did not say that.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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-----I signed off on it in December 2014. The business plan was another matter entirely.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Tusla stated that; I did not.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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No; again, the Deputy is misinterpreting.

Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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We are close to winding up.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy chose to misinterpret it.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I am not misinterpreting; Tusla stated it.

Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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The Minister to continue, without interruption.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I could refer to how, despite the budgetary constraints on the health system, inpatient waiting times had decreased-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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What?

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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-----and how we had introduced the country's first air ambulance service. The Deputy supported a Government that was in place for 14 years-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Stop. The Minister is obviously confused.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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-----and which had more money than any previous Government, but he could not have an air ambulance service put in place.

Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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We are running out of time.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Minister is confused. He should go to Beaumont hospital, Clonmel or anywhere else.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I wish to revert to the core issue.

Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Please, Minister, we are running out of time.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I know and assume the Acting Chairman is running out of patience.

Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Actually we have run out of time.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I will put this to the House clearly and straight - the operational decision made by Tusla and signed off on by its board was its decision and the Government had no influence over it. If we were to interfere, we would be accused to trying to fix the referendum.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Government did so, but it backfired.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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There was no such interference.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It was an own goal.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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My good friend, the people know and understand this was Tusla's decision, not the Government's. The Government had no hand, act or part in it.