Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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I thank the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine for attending to take my matter on the beef data and genomics programmes. Farmers are receiving the forms to fill in and there is huge discontent in suckler areas. When one looks at the terms and conditions, it is clear that one has to sign up to a six-year contract. If something goes wrong within five years, one will be in trouble and have to pay back the money.

I note the 60% issue in regard to genotyping. It is costing €30 to do each one. Most farmers in the scheme will have to have a planner to deal with carbon and the grazing season, which is causing problems. One big thing that is emerging from both the breeders of bulls and the farmers themselves involves the four and five star ratings. In reality, a one or two star bull may produce as good an animal and better than a four or five star one. An animal that may have five stars after three years could be brought down to two stars by a heifer or other progeny produced out of it down the road. We have seen this in looking at the bulls that have been produced in Ireland down through the years.

There is huge concern and it is not scare-mongering. Many farmers, especially the smaller ones, are throwing the forms in the fire they are so afraid to go into the scheme. It needs to be addressed. The farming organisations are holding meetings over the next week so extensive is concern on the ground. I have had a lot of farmers into my constituency office and they have said they are walking away from the scheme. The other issue is that if one increases or decreases from the 2014 figures, one does not comply with the terms of the scheme. I ask the Minister to look at and change the terms and conditions.

I know that the Irish Cattle Breeding Federation, ICBF, has worked with the Minister on this scheme but there is a huge difference between what I am hearing on the ground and what is being pushed. At the moment a person can bring a bull from England, but it could take two years before the person has a five star bull. Farmers have been doing it for years and there is a course available as well. These farmers have been involved in suckler farming for years and we need to keep them up and running.

This funding is like an apple which is high up in the tree. Everyone welcomes the funding which the Minister is making available and no one is taking from that fact. However, I am expressing the genuine discontent on the ground and the genuine fear farmers have of going into the scheme. It must be rejigged and we need to work with farmers and bull breeders to get it right. I have seen the stark consequence, which is widespread, especially in the west where many suckler farmers are based. Farmers are not going into the scheme.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Fitzmaurice for raising this issue. He will get a written response which will include further details but I will try to address some of the issues he is raising now. Some of the concerns are about something that is not proposed. It is true that this is quite a complex scheme. We are committing €300 million to the suckler herd. I want to give a strong statement from Government in the rural development programme that the suckler herd really matters. Tens of thousands of farm families, in every constituency and parish in the country, are deriving an income from suckler beef and we want to keep them there.

We also want to use the supports that we will be giving through this scheme to ensure that we improve the genetics and breeding performance of the herd. We also want to improve the quality of the herd so that animals grow faster, have better confirmation and improve their ease of calving and temperament and so on. We will be making a positive contribution from an emissions and climate change point of view because animals will be growing faster and producing meat more efficiently. We will also be helping farmers to become more profitable by producing better bred beef.

I am sure there are examples of a two star bull that has had a better progeny than a four star bull. However, on average, the more stars a bull has, the better the progeny that comes from that animal. That is the point of a star rating system. The same applies to suckler cows. The better the genetics, the increased likelihood of producing better animals from that herd. This is the purpose of the scheme.

There is a reason for asking people to sign up to a six year contract. This is an area based scheme under the rural development programme. Farmers are required to buy into the scheme for a certain number of years, as is the case when joining the GLAS scheme, and there are consequences if they pull out. The reason we need a six year commitment is that if we are going to collect DNA data in the first couple of years, it will only be in the second half of the scheme that we will see the genetic improvements that come from the collected data.

This is not a scheme that is simply pumping €95 per calved cow, for the first ten, and €80 per animal after that to support suckler farm income. It does that, but there are requirements and these requirements are not overly expensive. The carbon calculator that is being asked of farmers as part of the terms and conditions and the training that farmers need to undertake to understand how they can best use the genomic information that they get back from ICBF will both be paid for separately. The €30 that it costs to take a genomic sample last year is likely to be significantly cheaper this year because the numbers involved will be significantly higher, we will benefit from economies of scale and we will have a competitive process to get the price down further from where it was last year.

Farmers have nothing of which to be frightened in this scheme. If something dramatic happens on the farm and a farmer is forced out of the scheme during the six year period, the rules around force majeurewill apply. If someone dies on the farm or something like that, we will take that into account. However, we need this to be a six year commitment by farmers. We are contributing more than €53 million a year into the suckler beef sector. That is €300 million in total, of which more than half is being paid by the European Union. This is being done on the basis of a climate change measure, so that we can produce suckler beef more efficiently and so that there will be a lower carbon footprint in our beef herd. It will also mean more profitable beef production.

All of the things we have designed in this scheme are concerned with helping farmers to become more efficient and profitable and to produce better herds based on better breeding programmes. We are training farmers to use the scientific genomic data that we will collect from their herds, matched with the performance data farmers will provide, to help them do that. This is a win-win situation for everyone. It is not an attempt to capture farmers or tie them into things that they do not want to do. It is about working with farmers, getting information from them and giving it back to them in a form that with training results in better breeding programmes in our suckler beef herd.

If there is one thing I know since becoming Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine it is that the difference between the top performing suckler herds and the bottom performing suckler herds is an absolute chasm at the moment. Deputies who understand agriculture will understand this fact. We must help everyone move into a more efficient way of producing beef, which is more profitable for them and which is more climate efficient for us in terms of the targets we have to meet in agriculture. This is the purpose of the scheme. We will pay people to be part of that journey.

Brian Walsh (Galway West, Independent)
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I am sorry to interrupt the Minister but I must ask him to conclude.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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If there are any other questions, I will be happy to answer them.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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I thank the Minister for his reply. We all agree on ensuring the viability of farm families. However, the reality is that a person could have a five star bull today, but if there is a problem at calving from an off-spring of that bull, the bull could be reduced to a two star rating. This would be the same as an animal the person might have had the week before. Farmers will be expected to get rid of all their bulls which are under five stars. This means many bulls will be slaughtered.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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They are not required to have a five star rating until 2019.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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Is it not 2017?

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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It is 2019.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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That is fair enough, but they will be expected to do that by 2019.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Correct. They have four years to do it.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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Someone who bought a bull early this year or last year will have a three or four year old bull that they will have to send to the factory because the animal will not qualify for the scheme. It is as simple as that.

If a person works a year for someone, the person's wages are based on that year's work. If farmers do it right year one, year two and year three, they should not be penalised for the back-money. Every year should stand for itself. If I work for someone and make a mistake in year two, I do not get paid year one wages if I have done everything right. Will the Minister look at that aspect? Farmers are frightened of this scheme. We have seen problems between the Department and farmers over the past few years on eligibility and so forth. Farmers are frightened that if something goes wrong in year five that they could be looking at having to pay a big bill. That is a major stumbling block. Will the Minister's Department examine this issue and look at the possibility of taking each year as it is, which will give farmers hope going into the scheme?

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I wish to clarify a couple of matters on the four star and five star rating issue. At least one stock bull on the holding on 30 June 2019, which is four years from now, must be a bull that has been geno-typed four or five star on either the terminal or replacement index or a similar four or five star bull must be retained on the holding until 30 June 2020. In other words, the farmer can lease the bull. We are trying to give a signal to farmers that they need to plan to improve the bulls with which they will be breeding their animals and that they have four years to do it. That is why this is a six year commitment and not a year-on-year commitment. If someone decides to go into this scheme next year, gets the payments and then decides to pull out, it is of no value to anyone apart from the cash value to the farmer concerned.

However, if one makes a commitment for the six years, one gets payments for the full six years and is on a journey, from contributing information at the start and taking training for which one will be paid, on top of the beef genomic payment, to using the training and scientific information one has been given to have better breeding towards the end of the six years. This is so that, by the end of that period, we will have a better suckler herd, which is something from which everyone benefits.

If someone is forced out of the scheme because something dramatic happens or so on, we will consider the question of force majeure, as we do when farmers are forced out of other schemes. We understand that such things happen, but we want a medium-term, six-year commitment from farmers. This is not simply an annual cash payment for having a suckler herd. It is a programme that has some complexity to it but that farmers understand.

The six-year commitment involves generous payments throughout and will achieve exciting results for the farmer. This is why we have it. If we just have a year-on-year payment and farmers can opt in or out, those who leave early will have given all of the information but received none of the benefits. The Commission would not approve a programme that took five or six years to accrue benefits and for which we paid €300 million without getting a commitment that farmers would see it through. This is the issue. I hope that farmers understand.

I have been open and honest with farming organisations about it during the scheme's design. I hope that everyone will understand what we are doing, namely, ensuring it is a win-win for everyone by improving incomes for beef farmers while improving the quality of their breeding herds over a six-year period. We will get exciting results if the partnership between the Department and farmers works as planned.