Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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186. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform if he will prioritise low-paid workers in the forthcoming pay talks with public sector unions. [18407/15]

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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My question brings us back to today's talks and the issue of public sector pay. I want to know if and how the Minister will prioritise low-paid workers in the current round of talks. I heard the Minister say earlier that anything that is agreed must be prudent, modest and sustainable. He urged realistic expectations. What does that mean for low-paid workers in the public sector?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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As I have indicated, the negotiation process is underway and I do not propose to compromise it by engaging in speculative comment or debate on the detailed negotiating mandate of the people I have sent to talk on the Government's behalf. I want to make it clear, however, that all public servants from the lowest paid to the highest paid have contributed to our economic recovery. We designed the cuts imposed in the FEMPI Act I introduced in 2013 to be as progressive as possible. We protected the core pay of 87% of public servants; that is those who earn less than €65,000. The Haddington Road agreement reiterates the commitment to give priority to those public servants on salaries of less than €35,000. The agreement also contains commitments to those who suffered an additional real pay cut in 2013 either through a direct cut in core pay or through the loss of the supervision and substitutions allowance paid to teachers. The agreement is a collective agreement registered with the Labour Relations Commission and it contains detailed commitments on the restoration of those pay cuts. As Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, I will respect the terms of the collective agreement I solemnly entered into as should any person who respects the formal industrial relations processes of the State.

My intention is that any agreement reached will maintain and build upon the productivity and other reforms delivered through earlier agreements, including the Haddington Road agreement, and secure an industrial relations framework that will foster and support further productivity and change in the workplace. Reform is now a constant part of employment for public servants and is a central element of my strategy to deliver a public service that will in turn deliver improved outcomes for all stakeholders, including the business sector and every family in the State.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The difficulty with the Minister's reply is that it jabs at an answer. Previously, he has stood up in the House and given a commitment of sorts that those on lower incomes within the public service, including the Civil Service, would be prioritised. Ever since he made that commitment, the Minister has studiously rowed back from it. He says that every public servant has made a contribution. Yes, they were all captured by the FEMPI legislation. However, the big scandal in terms of the payment system within the public service is that there is a small minority at the top end who are outrageously overpaid by international standards while there is a set of people further down the chain who do not even earn the living wage. Some 4,000 of them, in fact, rely on family income supplement. When the Minister talks about winding back FEMPI and reinstating pay, he should start with that set of workers as a matter of logic as well as decency. What is the Minister going to do for them that is prudent, modest and sustainable?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy asks first about my actions. The only clear action I have taken was in regard to the Haddington Road agreement whereby anyone earning less than €65,000 received no cut in actual pay.

Those who earned more than €65,000 received pay cuts ranging from 5.5% to 10%. That is the reality and that is my record. It is not the previous Government's record but my record.

On pay comparisons, I am sure the Deputy has had an opportunity to look at the comparisons published by the CSO last week. Up to 2006, the public service, on a pay comparison basis, was paid more than the private sector. The snapshot of 2010 showed that situation no longer exists and that the public sector and the private sector were less than 1% apart. However, where they were apart was in respect of the lowest cohort of workers in the public sector who were better paid than comparable workers in the private sector. The highest half of public service workers were less well paid than their comparators in the private sector. I am sure Deputy McDonald will be conscious of that when we have to recruit consultants, people to man our health service, judges and so on.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The point I am making is not so much a point of comparison between the public and private sectors, although the Minister may note the advance and the toxic reality of zero hours contracts, casualisation of work and a driving down of terms and conditions in the private sector which, I suggest to the Minister, might account for the situation he described in terms of lower paid public sector workers. I have just told the Minister that some 4,000 of such workers rely on family income supplement. This fact is an admission by the system that these workers do not earn enough to maintain a basic lifestyle - not luxury, nothing fancy, just the basics. I want to know where low paid workers feature in the mandate the Minister has given to his officials in these talks. It seems to me that the Minister has stepped back from what he said a number of weeks ago about prioritising lower paid people. That is how this sounds to me. I would like the Minister to get up from his seat and tell me that I am wrong and I respectfully ask the Minister not to tell me about everyone because I want him to focus on the low paid in the public and civil service.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The response of the Deputy opposite is almost amusing because the day the Haddington Road agreement was negotiated, that early morning before it was actually published and certainly before it was distributed to anyone, the Deputy opposite, never having read it, was on the plinth denouncing it and its contents. Now she is concerned about the next phase of the process.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I am concerned about the low paid.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The House will be glad to know that the Minister of State, Deputy Gerald Nash, will be introducing before the summer recess groundbreaking new legislation to protect low paid workers, including the protection of collective bargaining and the restoration of registered employment agreements, which were struck down by the courts. That is something with which all trade unionists and all workers will strongly agree.

In respect of my aim in the pay talks that are currently under way, I have said that I will be faithful to the Haddington Road agreement, which was solemnly entered into by myself and the Government on one side and the trade union movement on the other, and which reflects the importance of ensuring that the focus is on low paid and middle income workers in particular.