Terence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Independent)
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191. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform his plans to reverse public sector pay cuts, including An Garda Síochána pay cuts; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [18124/15]

Terence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Independent)
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What are the Minister's plans to reverse public sector pay cuts, including An Garda Síochána pay cuts?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I have answered a few questions like this one and do not want to repeat the entire preamble. My intention is to open discussions today with the public sector and that has happened. We understand the economic circumstances in which we are discussing these matters. In an article I had published today I stated we did not have a greenfield site. We cannot undo all of the cuts; that would take a very considerable amount of time. I am very conscious that the sustainability of the public finances remains the first objective.

I acknowledge the contribution made by public sector workers to our recovery. Without their forbearance, doing more for less, we would not have got through the past four, five or six difficult years. As the cuts are anchored in emergency legislation, it is prudent and wise to see how we can unwind that emergency legislation in a rational way that would not put our recovery in jeopardy.

Terence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Independent)
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I thank the Minister for his response. I know that he is just beginning the discussions and that it is too early to say how they might conclude. As he knows, however, morale in the Garda has suffered in recent years. Pay has been reduced substantially for new entrants to the Garda in comparison with members who joined many years ago whose pay is much more substantial. Will a review of this issue be part of the agreement? On the PULSE system and the lack of adequate infrastructure for gardaí, will this issue be part of the reform agenda or will the Minister just be looking at the pay side?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I take it from the Deputy's question and comments that he supports the process of pay restoration. This seems to be at variance with his party's position. On the day of the launch of Renua Mr. Eddie Hobbs, a co-founder of the party, insisted on public sector workers not having their pay restored. When asked the question, he said, "The answer is no. It shouldn't happen because we have very scarce resources and they shouldn't be wasted restoring something that actually was one of the outcomes that contributed to the economic collapse." I hope the Deputy will acknowledge - I think he is so acknowledging - that it is now time to acknowledge the work of gardaí, teachers and other public sector workers who got us through difficult times by making their contribution, as every other citizen did. Many people made a bigger contribution by losing their jobs. Many were forced to emigrate. We need to build a future that will be sustainable in order that we do not revisit a boom and bust cycle. That is certainly the objective of the Government.

Terence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Independent)
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I thank the Minister for his response. I acknowledge that there have been many cuts for ordinary public servants, particularly gardaí. Members of the Garda have told me that they are finding it very difficult to get by. They accept, however, that reform of the public service is needed. What level of reform does the Minister envisage within An Garda Síochána in dealing with all of the deficits in equipment and even the question of starting pay? There are two Irelands in the sense that pay has been reduced substantially in recent years for new Garda recruits by comparison with the pay of those who joined in better times. Will this issue be looked at during the Minister's review of the agreement?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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One of the allowances payable to new gardaí has been abolished. In replies to parliamentary questions I have indicated that it is not my intention to see it restored. We had a considerable debate about there being too many allowances, a debate to which I believe the Deputy contributed. We now have a more rational pay structure.

For example, substitution is subsumed into teachers' core work and should be remunerated accordingly rather than as an add-on payment. We are introducing remarkable and groundbreaking change in An Garda Síochána. The Minister for Justice and Equality is establishing a new Garda authority, the chairperson of which has been named. This is something for which I have campaigned for a decade and I am glad to see it happening. We have a considerable number of good people in An Garda Síochána who want reform and to do things differently. The report of the Garda Síochána Inspectorate showed a great many shortcomings that need to be addressed.

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order, the Minister referred in his reply to Mr. Eddie Hobbs, who is a private citizen. We are regularly told by the Chair -----

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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He is the co-founder of a political party.

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I know that. I would have made my point of order if I was not interrupted.

Alan Farrell (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I ask the Deputy to put his question.

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The point of order is -----

Alan Farrell (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is not making a point of order. He is making a political point.

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am not making a political point. I am asking the Chair to consider the issue of Ministers referring to private citizens by name. Other Deputies get chastised for doing so.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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He is not a private citizen.