Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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The next Topical Issue is in the names of Deputies Broughan, Boyd Barrett and Deputy Dooley who are sharing the time slot.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Independent)
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Tomorrow is International Workers' Day and it is astonishing that a Government with Labour Ministers would have countenanced the privatisation of significant portions of Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann networks. The stonewalling of the NBRU and SIPTU by Minister, Deputy Paschal Donohoe, and his colleagues has brought us to the awful situation where between 400,000 and 450,000 bus commuters will be left with no bus transport tomorrow and Saturday. Some 93% of workers with Dublin Bus and 95% of Bus Éireann staff felt they had no choice a few weeks ago but to vote for strike action. We have just had a news flash that the strike is going ahead, which is very disappointing. We welcomed that there was some engagement at the Labour Relations Commission.

Both SIPTU and NBRU have outlined their profound concerns for future pay and conditions of the workforce resulting from the proposed tendering and privatisation of Dublin city and national bus routes. Recent assurances from the companies and the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, may be worth no more than similar assurances given to the Aer Lingus workforce, as Deputy Daly noted this morning. We have the example of the UK since the Thatcherite period in the mid-1980s when its national public bus network was privatised and eventually ended up as a cartel divided geographically between five operators.

The Taoiseach and the Minister have repeatedly spoken about the public service obligation subsidy of €90 million. They did not mention that the subsidy has been slashed by the Government and its predecessors since 2011, year after year.

The PSO for Bus Éireann was cut by €15 million, down from €49 million to €34 million. In the case of Dublin Bus, the PSO only represented approximately 30% of turnover whereas in many other European countries, PSOs are in the region of 70% of turnover. Both companies have produced surpluses in recent years and have brought forward many driver and route efficiencies, including network direct in Dublin.

It is very disappointing that even at this, the 11th hour, negotiations have not succeeded. I strongly urge the Minister to address the six areas of concern to the 6,000 staff and their trade union representatives. What progress, for example, has been made on registered employment agreements? It is my personal view that the Minister should simply abandon this crazy plan and put all of his Department's resources into developing a proper Dublin and national bus service.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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If the Minister wants to avoid major disruption to hundreds of thousands of people over the May Day bank holiday weekend and prevent workers, who do not want to be on strike, from going on strike tomorrow, he should abandon this crazy plan to privatise 10% of the routes of Bus Éireann and Dublin Bus. A lot of mud has been thrown and confusion sown on this issue but the bottom line is that this is the beginning of an ideologically driven attempt to privatise bus services. The consequence of that will be to assault the pay and conditions of bus workers and to adversely affect the public transport system as a public service for those who need it. Essentially, what this Government is about is making public transport a purely profit-oriented business. That is absolutely retrograde and should be abandoned.

My own area will be devastated by the first round of privatisation. Six routes are affected, namely 75, 45A, 59, 62, 17 and 114. What characterises many, though not all, of those routes is that they serve areas that are a little bit off the beaten track and where many elderly and young people live. They would not necessarily be hugely profitable routes and if this plan goes ahead these routes will be lost, sooner or later. There is no way for private companies to make money from such routes other than by cutting the routes, reducing the service or attacking the pay and conditions of their workers. The problem with public transport in this country is simple. We provide one of the lowest subsidies to public transport in Europe at 29%; it is 39% in London, 57% in Zurich, 79% in Lyon, 68% in Brussels and so forth. That is the basic problem; we are underfunding public transport in order to force it towards privatisation. We should abandon that plan and avert the strike tomorrow.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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It is deeply unfortunate that we find ourselves, at the eleventh hour, in a situation where tens of thousands of people will be without public transport in the coming days. The blame for that lies firmly at the feet of this Government. The fateful decision was taken by a Labour Party Minister, in consultation with the former Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, before the current Minister came into office. Notwithstanding that, an ideological position is being pushed by Fine Gael which has led to this crisis.

The Minister took the opportunity yesterday to suggest that it was a decision taken by a previous Government that led to this situation. However, he knows well that the 2008 Act was based on a European Commission regulation of 2007 which required legislation to cover competition. The legislation that was introduced in 2008 sets out very clearly in section 52 that the existing routes could be maintained by both Bus Éireann and Dublin Bus, based on an awarding mechanism that would see them retain what they currently have. Instead of using the provisions in the legislation to introduce competitive tendering for new routes, thereby protecting the core public transport network, this Government has chosen not to use section 52 of the legislation or, indeed, the agreements that were reached with unions at the time. It has chosen a path of dismantling the public transport system that is currently in public ownership. That is why the workers identify rightly, on behalf of the next generation, that if they do not take a stand now, commuters will be disenfranchised and routes and services will diminish in line with what happened in other jurisdictions, particularly in London.

I appeal to the Minister, through the NTA, to call off the process of competitive tendering and go back to the table to see how he can achieve his ideological goals in a manner that does not impact on either the travelling public or the workers.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputies for raising this issue which is of huge concern to commuters throughout the country and to workers in our public bus companies. On Tuesday, I issued a statement which dealt comprehensively with the industrial relations issues involved in the current dispute between SIPTU, NBRU and the bus companies. I confirmed that no current employees of the two companies would have to transfer to another employer should their company be unsuccessful in retaining one of the routes being tendered out in the current process. As this means that the terms and conditions of all those employees are fully protected, my statement provided a framework for the unions to return to the LRC to formalise an agreement with the companies on that basis and to agree a process to deal with any implementation issues which might arise. This statement removed any industrial relations basis for strike action by either union against the companies and should have led to an immediate calling-off of the strikes planned for this weekend and on five subsequent days in May. This has not happened and attempts have been made to justify the disruption this action will cause to the public and the damage it will cause to the companies, by reference to a range of issues which have already been addressed or which relate to Government policies and legislation which are entirely outside the control of the companies and are not a valid basis for legitimate industrial action.

To remove any doubt or confusion which may exist in the public mind, I want in the short time available to me to address again some of the points raised by SIPTU and the NBRU. First, they have stated that no bus worker should be compelled to move to a private operator under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment), TUPE, regulations. As stated, I confirmed on Tuesday that such a commitment can be given to all current employees for the tender process that is now under way. The unions have also said that the NTA must effectively regulate private operators who breach workers' conditions of employment. This is not an industrial relations matter between the unions and the two companies and is not a valid basis for industrial action against them. However, the NTA has already indicated at the LRC that it will develop a basic set of principles for inclusion in a statement of contractor employment standards for contractors on relevant public transport service contracts. This would indicate that it is NTA policy to ensure contractor compliance with employment law and the authority will apply a performance regime that would include performance deductions where breaches of contract obligations have been verified and not dealt with. The ultimate sanction, of course, is termination of the contract.

The trade unions have stated that labour costs must not be a considering factor in the contract tendering process. This is not an industrial relations matter between the unions and the two companies and is not a valid basis for industrial action against the companies. Furthermore, this is not a provision that is used in tendering processes. The unions have said that where legacy costs arise from lost tenders, workers must not be asked to fund these through restructuring. The companies have already given this commitment and will restate it in discussions at the LRC. In any event, legacy costs will not be significant because of growth in the overall market. Finally, the unions have said that registered employment agreements, REAs, for bus workers should be entered into by employers.

The Government has approved the drafting of legislation on REAs and sectoral employment orders, which is due to be published within weeks. Following enactment, it would be a matter for parties involved in the bus market as to whether they want to instigate discussions on an REA or approach the Labour Court for a sectoral employment order. Therefore this is not a valid basis for the current industrial action.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Independent)
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The Minister mentioned a statement of contractor employment standards, SCES, for proposed private operators on 10% of the PSO routes. However, across a wide range of policy areas, including finance, banking, energy and communications, regulation has not worked. We have cartels in energy with companies charging what they like.

I also asked about the registered employment agreement, which the Minister said would be published. Why has it not been published? Why has this work not been done? The Minister said sectoral employment orders can be made, but he has given no details. There is nothing here for very worried workers and their families.

The Minister referred to TUPE but we know the weaknesses of TUPE. It does not cover pensions and so on. There is no basis in EU or Irish law for the steps he is now taking.

We do not need this privatisation. It is not necessary. It was foisted on us by the late Séamus Brennan of Fianna Fáil. This is a Fianna Fáil production now being directed by Fine Gael to bring us a privatised public bus sector. The two of them will probably be together after the general election in a Fianna Fáil-Fine Gael Government.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should not hold his breath.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Independent)
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This is what has been planned. This is what the Irish Independentwants to happen with Fine Gael having perhaps eight seats in Cabinet. They invented this.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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No, we did not.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Independent)
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The late Séamus Brennan wanted to privatise a quarter of the bus network.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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That is correct, but he never got his way.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Independent)
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I urge the Minister and I urge Labour Party Ministers to abandon this policy and give Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann the resources they need to produce the kind of good bus service we want. He should not bring us down this road, which has ended up with cartels and price-gouging in the UK, overseen by the current Conservative-led Government.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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When we hear the Minister's response, which has failed to address either the questions we asked or, more importantly, the concerns driving the bus workers to go out on strike tomorrow, I have to say they are right and justified to proceed with that industrial action to force the Minister to back down. This is about the Minister's policy and not all these technicalities and legalities. It is about his policy and the obsession of Fine Gael in particular to privatise public services.

We need to be clear and the public needs to be clear that when those workers go out on strike against privatisation, they are acting in the interests of the entire public. As a result of privatisation there will not be a single extra bus route or bus journey on any of the routes that are outsourced. The only thing that will change is that in order to make money, those private contractors will have to cut the wages and conditions of workers or cut the services, or both. In the long run, services such as the ones I mentioned in outlying areas, of which our area will be particularly hard hit, will go because they will not been seen as profitable from the point of view of profit-hungry contractors.

We are saying the Minister should abandon the plan to dismantle the public transport system. It is wrong.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Yet again the Minister has announced what he believes to be the solution to this strike - that workers could remain with the two parent companies. All that he does every time he reiterates that is to prove that this is ideology over economics from the Government's perspective. If Bus Éireann and Dublin Bus have to retain staff they no longer require because they no longer retain the services, they will become more inefficient, making it more difficult for Bus Éireann and Dublin Bus to compete for the awards the Minister will be issuing from 2017 to 2019.

It is not acceptable for the Minister to say that somehow because of growth in the market these people will be subsumed into those companies because if the Bus Éireann network in Waterford is dismantled and the growth is in Dublin, does he expect these workers to travel from Waterford to Dublin to work? It is farcical. I know it was about the Minister putting his finger in the dam of the strike that is emerging, but it undermines the efforts he is making if it is supposed to be done under value for money. I ask the Minister to accept that the proposal based on Fine Gael ideology is wrong, to pull back at this late hour and ask the NTA to step back from competitive tendering.

As the strike is going ahead tonight, I ask the Minister to do two things. He should ask Iarnród Éireann to halt the works that are planned on the rail network over the weekend. Will he sign whatever order is appropriate to open up the bus lanes to commuters during the strike period?

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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Anybody who is going on strike tomorrow will not find themselves required to change company due to the tendering process that is under way. It is an intervention that is unprecedented in the recent history of both companies. It was made by the Government because I recognised the concerns that workers have regarding a change. I am also very conscious that what will happen tomorrow will cause immense harm to the company and to the travelling public. The losses for both companies will be in the millions of euro and millions of journeys will be affected by what could yet happen tomorrow.

The Labour Relations Commission and all that is available there provided a forum within which the framework I have outlined could have led to dealing with detailed matters of implementation. That would have allowed the residual issues that existed to be dealt with.

One matter that has been further emphasised throughout today is the issue of legacy costs. I have emphasised again here this evening as I did earlier that legacy costs as a result of this process will not have to be dealt with by the companies. As a result of what could happen tomorrow, great legacy costs will be conferred on both companies due to the scale of strike action that will happen. I will not be asking the taxpayer to pay for that cost.

I believe we will have a bigger bus market with a bigger Bus Éireann and bigger Dublin Bus within it. As we increase investment in both those companies we should do so in such a way that the best value can be gained for the taxpayer and where a degree of tension can be introduced for that market to ensure services are provided well and taxpayers' money is well spent.