Dáil debates

Thursday, 23 April 2015

Ceisteanna - Questions - Priority Questions

Irish Water Funding

9:30 am

Photo of Barry CowenBarry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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1. To ask the Minister for Environment, Community and Local Government the timeframe for the announcement of the result of the EUROSTAT market corporation test of Irish Water; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15771/15]

Photo of Barry CowenBarry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I seek an update as to when EUROSTAT will come back to the Government with its proposals as to the funding model for Irish Water. I am conscious that the Government has based its plan on the premise that it will get the spending associated with Irish Water off-balance-sheet. The CSO recently adjudicated that it should be on-balance-sheet. The Government is paying 1.5 percentage points over the rate the NTMA is paying for borrowing on a regular basis.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy.

Photo of Barry CowenBarry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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This not only defeats the purpose but also proves that, on balance sheet, the Government is paying 1.5 percentage points over the rate the NTMA is paying for regular borrowings on the part of the Government. When will EUROSTAT come back to the Government? Why has the delay arisen?

Photo of Alan KellyAlan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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I thank the Deputy for his question. A key component of the strategy to establish Irish Water is that Irish Water will be classified as a market corporation under EUROSTAT rules and as a result will not, other than in relation to Government support, be included in the calculation of the general Government balance.

The CSO is independent and is responsible for engagement with EUROSTAT on such matters. Officials from my Department have met officials from that office and have provided the necessary information to facilitate this work. Early engagement with that office by my Department centred on understanding the rules by which a utility such as Irish Water would be considered a market corporation. I went into that in great detail. Based on this understanding, the Government is confident that the underlying funding model for Irish Water supports increased investment in the water sector through an off-balance-sheet classification of the utility, while at the same time providing for water charges which are affordable, clear and certain.

The Government remains absolutely confident that Irish Water will pass the market corporation test. However, as it is independent, this is ultimately a matter for EUROSTAT. The CSO has confirmed that a classification proposal on Irish Water is currently with EUROSTAT. The CSO has further stated that this is a closed process and that it is awaiting EUROSTAT’s final adjudication, which I expect in a couple of months.

Photo of Barry CowenBarry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I accept the Minister's answer and hear what he is saying. Unfortunately, towards the end of last year we were informed that by February or March we would have a resolution to this issue and a decision by EUROSTAT. The Minister is obviously not aware of the reason for the delay because he believes the Government has adhered to all the rules.

In the absence of legislation to give effect to stronger powers on the part of Irish Water to get payment from those who refuse to pay, when does the Minister expect to introduce legislation to give more powers to Irish Water in that regard? Is EUROSTAT awaiting the outcome of that process? Irish Water then will be perceived to have an absolute income stream, which is currently absent, in the form of adequate legislation to empower it to force people to pay, which goes against the commitment the Minister gave previously that no enforcement would be forthcoming in the form of turning off taps and so forth.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy.

Photo of Barry CowenBarry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That appears to be a gap in the Government's presentation to EUROSTAT. Also, the €100 grant is nothing more than a kickback, to use some of the language that has been expressed about other issues that have been discussed this week.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy. We are over time.

Photo of Alan KellyAlan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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The €100 grant is very much welcomed by many people I have met in Offaly.

Photo of Barry CowenBarry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is to turn on the tap.

Photo of Alan KellyAlan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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There is no correlation between legislation proposed to be introduced in the very near future to address the issues he raised and EUROSTAT's decision. EUROSTAT is completely independent and deals with the CSO here in Ireland. When it makes its decision is a matter for that organisation. I cannot dictate; I can just give guidance in this House on what I expect to the best of my ability, as I have always done. Ultimately it is a matter for EUROSTAT as to when that decision is in place. There is no delay. This is a matter for EUROSTAT based on the information provided to it through the CSO. As I said, I expect that in a couple of months.

I think it was the right decision-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Minister.

Photo of Alan KellyAlan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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-----to ensure that people's taps could not be turned off. However, I expect legislation on enforcement mechanisms to be brought before the House in the coming weeks.

Photo of Barry CowenBarry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Can the Minister confirm, and does he think it is ironic, that with regard to the borrowing of €300 million that Irish Water obtained in the markets at the end of last year, the rate it is paying - and, ultimately, that consumers will pay - is 2.5%? Is it the case that the rate at which the Government is borrowing on a regular basis through the NTMA just 1%? Despite all that has been spent - some would say wasted - in getting us to this point, the consumer will be expected to pay 150% more than if it was on balance sheet and within general taxation.

Photo of Alan KellyAlan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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No; I do not think it is ironic at all. It is done with the best information available. Irish Water gets the best rates it can.

It continues to consider various other ways of borrowing and is very close to some more success in that respect. Ultimately, we believe, Irish Water will be off-balance-sheet. It is absolutely necessary for Irish Water to be in a position to borrow at the scale required so that it can put over €6 billion into the network in the future to deal with all the issues concerning water which this House is well aware of, and the fact that it was not a priority for many Governments across parties in recent decades.