Dáil debates

Tuesday, 31 March 2015

6:15 pm

Photo of Eamonn MaloneyEamonn Maloney (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this issue. I will be brief as I am sharing time with Deputy Dooley.

The Minister will be familiar with the outcome of yesterday's discussions between the transport unions, the Department, the National Transport Authority, CIE, Dublin Bus and so forth regarding the forthcoming proposal on the privatisation of 10% of routes. The Minister's predecessor was also involved in this issue. I hope the Minister will agree that it is regrettable that yesterday's discussions broke down because, one way or another, this issue must be resolved. The bus workers have legitimate concerns about what might happen where 10% of routes are privatised, notwithstanding the fact that Dublin Bus, in the case of Dublin, can apply and will no doubt win some of those routes. The point is that the worker is faced with the threat of a change of employer and issues about their pensions, pension rights and so forth.

There are other issues as well. We should be concerned and avoid getting into the situation where these talks are now going. SIPTU and the National Bus and Railworkers Union are in discussions about a ballot on strike action. This is an opportunity for the Minister. I know his views on public transport. With the Minister's intervention we should get the talks started again.

6:25 pm

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Like my colleague, I believe it is important that the Minister involves himself in this debate. It is regrettable that the National Transport Authority is pushing ahead with the privatisation agenda without the agreement of the unions concerned. The NBRU has set out a clear position. It has identified that section 52 of the 2008 Act gives exclusive rights to Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann to operate existing routes and, therefore, any privatisation can only be on new routes.

It is highly regrettable that a representative body finds itself with no alternative but to resort to the protection of the courts to vindicate its rights. It is particularly disturbing a time when the Labour Party forms part of the Government. The Minister will recall that in the formation of the current Administration the Labour Party sought and achieved a Minister of State portfolio with responsibility for public transport. Sadly, the Labour Party realised that it was losing the battle and allowed that post to be shelved when the then Minister of State, Deputy Alan Kelly, was promoted to a full Cabinet position. That was all done rather quietly but not without the recognition, in particular by the people who work in the public transport sector, that the Government had in effect turned its back on public transport workers. This is especially disturbing with the Labour Party still at the Cabinet table.

I believe the Minister is a fair-minded individual and someone who has a balanced approach to all aspects of public transport. He has not seemed to push the right-wing privatisation agenda of some in his party. I appeal to the Minister to talk to the NTA, ask it to postpone its agenda of putting routes out to tender and try to get consensus among the worker representatives. It would be appalling if a representative body had to seek redress in the courts while the Labour Party forms part of the Government.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputies for raising this matter. Since this is such an important matter I am pleased to have the opportunity to brief the Dáil. It is disappointing that unions have withdrawn from discussions being facilitated by the Labour Relations Commission. I understand the discussions had been progressing with several employee concerns being addressed.

The National Transport Authority has the statutory responsibility under legislation for judging how best to balance direct award and tendered public service obligation bus services. The NTA decided in late 2013 that 10% of the existing PSO bus market should be tendered following a wide-ranging consultation process. The NTA was proceeding with the public procurement process while participating in an LRC-facilitated process to address CIE employee concerns on the implications of this market opening. The talks have been adjourned following the threat of litigation by the NBRU and trade union withdrawal yesterday.

I reiterate that there has been intensive engagement for some time on employee issues. It is the Government view that these LRC discussions would allow employee concerns to be addressed satisfactorily. Indeed, there has been a particular focus on facilitating existing employees to remain in either Dublin Bus or Bus Éireann if either company did not succeed in the tendering process. I understand that strenuous efforts were being made within the talks process to facilitate as many existing employees as possible to stay in their respective companies, arising from forecast growth in the PSO market under the Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann direct award contracts.

The introduction of competitive tendering has the potential to save taxpayers' money, encourage cost competitiveness and enhance service quality. The international experience indicates that competitive tendering is beneficial in providing subsidised PSO bus services or socially necessary non-commercial bus services.

This year, 2015, for the first time since 2008, the level of PSO contribution for bus and rail services is being maintained at the same level as the previous year. Moreover, I secured €110 million for public transport as part of the 2014 Supplementary Estimate. Improved public transport, whether new services or increased frequencies of existing services, will require additional funding. Our support for improved services should be given in conjunction with an appropriate degree of competitive tension within the market in the interests of quality and cost-effectiveness for commuters. This is why I am committed to the 10% tendering of bus routes.

I recognise, however, that trade unions have concerns about the impact of our existing legislation post-2019 when the direct award contracts granted to Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann are due to expire. I am advised that the legislation, which was enacted by the previous Government, was carefully crafted in accordance with EU law. This legislation has recently allowed the NTA to renew the direct award contracts of Bus Éireann and Dublin Bus subject to arrangements being made for the tendering of 10% of the PSO bus market. However, in light of trade union concerns, my Department has recently agreed to seek legal advice on specific aspects of the compatibility of our legislation, in particular with regard to the post-2019 scenario, with the provisions of EU law. Despite this agreement, the NBRU decided to withdraw from the talks yesterday.

The NTA is satisfied that it has the necessary powers under existing legislation to continue with the tendering process and will defend any threatened litigation by NBRU as necessary.

Photo of Eamonn MaloneyEamonn Maloney (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Notwithstanding what the Minister said at the end about the process going ahead, my principal concern having spoken to the various trade union representatives is that we are allowing or could allow a situation to evolve in which we will have an unnecessary strike or a cessation of Dublin bus services over something that is avoidable. Anyone with knowledge of industrial relations would understand that unless the parties concerned are talking to each other, there will not be progress.

I appreciate that this process has gone on for some time, although not for too long in the overall context. It is part of the European process. Notwithstanding that, for the National Transport Authority to state casually that it is going ahead with the tendering process is, in layman's terms, like a red rag to a bull. We can understand the reaction from workers and their unions. They see a situation in which they are going to be forced into a position where they have to make a stand. That should be avoided. That is my principal case to the Minister. That should not be allowed to unfold. Sometimes strikes happen by default. No worker wants to go on strike; they are not always beneficial. No one should be put in that situation. A strike is always a last resort for people in trade unions. Again, I urge the Minister to do whatever he possibly can.

I have taken note of Deputy Dooley's contribution. He spent most of his two minutes talking about privatisation and the Labour Party. His memory is short. He should consider Aer Lingus as well as what he and Fianna Fáil did to the subsidy to Dublin Bus, Bus Éireann, etc. He should check some facts before he contributes to Topical Issue debates.

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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While I thank the Minister for his response, unfortunately, it still does not address the serious issue we now have. It appears we are heading towards a scenario where the workers' representatives are seeking the protection of the courts while the Labour Party remains in government.

I am somewhat confused that the Labour Party is not doing more at Government level to support public transport. I am also concerned at the serious impact industrial action will have on the travelling public. It is incumbent on the Minister to address the concerns of the workers, which in essence will be addressing the potential concerns of the travelling public. The NTA needs to move back. Asserting its legal position at this stage is unhelpful. This can still be done around the table. Of course, I recognise the supremacy of the Labour Relations Commission and the Labour Court in attempting to find an appropriate solution. It is unhelpful that there will not be an opportunity to allow that to be dealt with in a calm and collected way. We have to try to pull back from the courts and the NTA has to pull back from its procurement process and try to find a solution that meets the needs and concerns of all at this time.

6:35 pm

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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One of the reasons I have a very strong commitment to delivery of a 10% tendering of existing routes is because of my commitment to ensuring we have a growing bus market in the future that is more active, has more services and has the ability to respond to the travelling public. I am the Minister who, before Christmas, brought in a Supplementary Estimate of €110 million, the sole purpose of which was to support the development of the CIE group and meet its financial needs. I did that because I recognise the very important role public transport has to play in responding to and meeting the needs of passengers, in many cases where the private sector will not do so or is not in a position to do so. That is why our public transport companies, particularly our bus companies, are important, and it is one of the reasons they received such support from me before Christmas.

With regard to the Labour Relations Commission, I reiterate that what happened yesterday is disappointing. Many of the issues that have been raised by the unions as being important and which they raised with me before Christmas would have been resolved within the labour relations process. There are key issues in regard to the impact on workers and the future of the bus market. I am confident that if the process had been allowed to continue, these matters would have been dealt with and, therefore, what happened yesterday is disappointing. I reaffirm that the Labour Relations Commission, the supremacy of which Deputy Dooley acknowledged, is the forum in which matters like this should be dealt with. I am confident the legislation that is in place is robust. The NTA has indicated its intent to defend that legislation if it were to be challenged in the courts by the NBRU or another party.