Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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9. To ask the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation the steps he is taking to ensure Science Foundation Ireland continues to fund basic fundamental scientific research; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11963/15]

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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This is round three in dealing with this issue. We will take the Minister's response as read. He has said it is no good having ivory tower research - research for the sake of it. That is the fundamental flaw. I put to him that he needs to take off his economics hat and look at the other aspects because scientific research is not just about producing a clear economic return. It is about building capacity and human capital that can attract new investment to the economy.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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I agree. If the Deputy looks at SFI's strategic plan, he will see that they are precisely the things with which it is concerned. It must build human capital within the universities and see to it that 60% of it will transfer to the enterprise base in order that with this capability we can grow the industry base. The 12 science centres are part of the budgeting. They are funding more basic research by principal investigators. This involves building world-class centres of scale and ambition in which the science is internationally robust and they can build connections to our small and medium enterprises, about which Deputy PeadarTóibín was talking earlier.

It is really important that we have the spectrum. While some people will say that what is all-important is the basic research, others will say it is commercialisation. We are making sure we fund the whole spectrum and are trying to improve the connections. We have put in Knowledge Transfer Ireland, improved the IP protocols and built the technology gateways in our institutes of education. We have built the scientific research centres and have a suite of projects.

Returning to Deputy Daly's point, it would be the very same in any other European country. Other countries are struggling with the sort of spectrum they should build and how to do it best. It is hotly contested and I make no apologies for saying jobs are my priority at the moment as we are a job-needy economy. Others will say the priority is basic research and we are trying to strike the balance. We have really good people driving the system and it is working. We are doing well against international measures in excellence of science and in application.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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The problem is that all the funding going into basic research is for, as the Minister put it, oriented research. Funding is not being made available for blue-sky research. This is an issue I have raised with the Minister over the last decade or more in government and in opposition. There is a fundamental weakness in Government policy as it should not put all its eggs in one basket as regards applied research.

Taking hurling as an analogy, it is as if the Minister said we will put all the investment into Kilkenny, Cork and Clare hurling from under age right through to the senior teams, but we will forget about the likes of Waterford, Limerick, Offaly and the weaker counties and let them fend for themselves. The Government is putting the investment into basic research, but it is doing so in specialisations that already exist and that is the fundamental flaw.

In the particular correspondence that was signed by 900 scientists, the most damning indictment was that it clearly stated that we are now producing----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry Deputy, you are over time. I will let you back in again. There is a time limit.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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Science Foundation Ireland spends €150 million out of the €724 million in research. This oriented research, funded from the enterprise sector and the enterprise policy dimension, is less than a quarter of the overall research spend. As the Deputy knows, the Higher Education Authority allocates substantial moneys to individuals to undertake research in their own fields and they are entirely free in the application of that time.

We have competitive calls for our €150 million budget, which is designed to have maximum impact on the Irish economy and on society. For example, who could not say that advanced materials bioengineering research being carried out at Amber is not an area? Amber's research area is 2D materials and composites, biomaterials, medical devices, semi-conductor and memory devices, polymer nano-composites and membranes. To me, that means all the connected, smart products, the internet of things - that is what they are at and that is the fundamental direction in which we are going.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you, Minister.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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These are some of the best scientists we have - Professor Fergal O'Brien, Professor Michael Morris and so on. They are tied into----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Minister, there is a time limit. There are also Deputies waiting in the Chamber to ask questions.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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What we are doing is impactful and it is proving its impact. It is a competitive call----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Minister, the time is up.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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The problem is that the next big innovation in the world will probably be when a geologist, a microbiologist and maybe - God forbid - an economist sit down together over a cup of coffee and come up with some big new idea. If they do not have the basic skills they are not going to develop that. We are producing science graduates who have not done real experimental work during their undergraduate years. It is like trying to train doctors and license them as GPs without their having first-hand experience of treating patients. While the approach the Minister is taking will deliver in the short term - I have no difficulty with that and believe a substantial of investment needs to go into it- if he puts all his eggs into oriented research, whether it be basic or applied, he will end up without the fundamental building blocks to sustain this growth into the future.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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We are not putting all our eggs in one basket; €150 million is going into this out of the approximately €725 million that is spent on research. The HEA funds much more than we do and its funds provide the blue-sky freedom to individual researchers to study their own things and do whatever collaborations they wish - indeed those people can collaborate with our centres and data. They are all located in universities and there is a web of them around the country. An academic can plug into our insight and we have developed in a such way that there are hubs and spokes, so there can be flexible interaction with these centres.

As the Deputy is aware, Science Foundation Ireland is investing in head-hunting stars who can come to Irish colleges and become a nucleus around which new thinking can occur. We are funding that from our Department, bringing in those stars who can build excellence around them. There is a lot that is exciting happening in this area but it is based on selection. The best projects win. It is not just saying that everyone gets €X and they all go off and we hope that something comes back. We stoutly defend the approach and evolve it all the time.