Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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3. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the total number of chairpersons and non-executive directors of State or partially owned State companies, State bodies, semi-State bodies and State agencies under his Department on the State's payroll; the total cost to the State of the payout to these non-executive directors, including fees, travel costs and other expenditure; and to outline his plans to reduce the number of these chairpersons and directors and their fees. [11977/15]

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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This question addresses the issue of directors of semi-State companies, semi-State agencies, State agencies and others under the aegis of the Government and Minister. I would like to elicit the facts, rather than rhetoric, on the number of chairpersons and non-executive directors of State or partially owned State companies, semi-State bodies and State agencies on the State's payroll and the total cost to the State from the payout to these non-executive directors, including fees, travel and other expenditure. Does the Minister have any plans to reduce the number of these chairpersons, directors or their fees? I want to know what they do and if they are worth it.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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In response to the Deputy's question the total number of chairpersons and non-executive directors of State or partially owned State companies, State bodies, Semi-state bodies and State agencies under the remit of my Department is two. In the case of the Public Appointments Service, the chairperson is paid €11,970 per annum.  Currently, the only expenses paid are to the Chairperson in respect of travel from Belfast which is in the region of €200 approximately per annum. The Institute of Public Administration do not pay fees to board members. It should be noted that while my Department is responsible for determining the fee rate policy for chairpersons and members of commercial and non-commercial State bodies, it is the responsibility of each Department to implement the approved fee rates for chairpersons and members in each of the State bodies.

The fee rates for both commercial and non-commercial State bodies were reduced by 10% in 2009. The FEMPI Act 2009 provided for a further reduction of approximately 6% in the fees payable to members of the boards of non-commercial Public Service bodies with effect from January 2010.  There are no current plans to further reduce the fee rates payable to chairpersons and members of State bodies. Similarly, while my Department has responsibility for policy on travel and subsistence it does not have a direct role in controlling the application of that policy in each individual State agency and body.

The code of practice for the governance of State bodies sets out the rules with regard to travel and subsistence in non-commercial state bodies. Page 20 of the code states that non-commercial bodies should adopt and comply in all respects with the circulars issued from time to time by my Department regarding travel and subsistence.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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That was not the answer I wanted, as the Minister knows. I asked about those on the State's payroll, not those on his payroll. It is regrettable that he came up with an answer like that. Perhaps he could refer it back and come back with a fuller and more complete answer.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I will answer.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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Perhaps the Minister could help me in a broader way. His colleague, the Minister for Health, Deputy Leo Varadkar, wrote an eloquent document when he was in opposition on the number of people on State boards. He said there were 2,416 sitting on State boards and that 2,007 State agencies were created between 1997 and 2007.

Perhaps the Minister may wish to answer as a member of the Government - that is fine - but I believe he has a responsibility in this matter. I am trying to establish whether these people are simply what they used to call in the City of London "grunt-a-month guys"?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I am sorry.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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They used to call them "grunt-a-month guys". They came in, sat down, took the cheque and said nothing. What performance criteria are they supposed to meet? To whom are they accountable? Is it only to the Minister?

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I will come back to the Deputy again.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Under the rules of the House and the law I am responsible for the agencies under my direct remit. Each line Minister is responsible by law and statute for agencies under his remit. To be helpful to the Deputy I have asked each line Minister to reply directly to him in order that he can have a comprehensive view. I hope that will meet the point.

The more substantial point Deputy Ross makes relates to what these people on State boards do. We set up an entirely new appointments system which will be transformational, not instantly but over time. In respect of each State board and agency, each Department is required to set out bespoke criteria for appointment, including the balance and skill-set that is required. Then, it must advertise on the Public Appointments Service. The Public Appointments Service must evaluate all applications against the criteria set down and then make recommendations to the Minister. I believe that will be transformational.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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I thank the Minister for that. How many of these people have been removed from their positions in recent years? How many have actually come before the relevant Minister? I presume they are accountable to the Minister. How many of them have been removed? There were 2,416 according to the Minister for Health, Deputy Leo Varadkar, when he was in opposition. It would be interesting to know how many have been removed. Have they all got a clean bill of health? Have they all been reappointed every year?

I wish to ask a second question. In 2009, a global economic forum was held in Dublin Castle. The Government of the day received volunteers from many among the Irish diaspora overseas who offered to serve on these boards. How often has that been taken up? Has it been taken up by any of the Ministers under this Administration? Are they still looking in that area or have they given up?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Board members are not appointed every year. They are appointed for a term, as set out in the statutes that determine each state body. It is not normal to remove people except for stated misconduct during the course of duties. There would be consequences and liabilities accruing to the State for simply firing people, as the Deputy is aware. Besides, the vast majority of people who take up these appointments do so for the good of the State and they do a very good job.

Deputy Ross made a point about volunteers. As I said, there is an entirely new appointments system which is not confined to those who were privileged enough to attend the diaspora forum. It is open to everyone anywhere who wishes to serve on a State board to make application and be considered for it. That is far more open and transparent. It is not a matter of a person being willing to serve, it is a question of the bespoke criteria that are required, whether the person meets them and, if he does, then he may apply and he will be individually scrutinised by the independent Public Appointments Service to judge whether he meets the criteria.

I wish to pay tribute to the many hundreds of people who give exemplary service to the State, for a small remuneration in many instances.