Dáil debates

Wednesday, 11 March 2015

2:10 pm

Photo of Michael McNamaraMichael McNamara (Clare, Labour)
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In 2010, Ireland submitted what is known as a tentative list to UNESCO, which is an inventory of properties we asked to be considered for nomination to the world heritage list. That list is as follows: the Burren; the Céide Fields and north west Mayo boglands; the monastic city of Clonmacnoise and its cultural landscape; the historic city of Dublin; early monastic sites, including Clonmacnoise, Durrow, Glendalough, Inis Cealtra - which lies in Lough Derg and is of particular interest to me - Kells and Monasterboice; the royal sites of Ireland, which comprise Cashel, Dún Ailinne, the Hill of Uisneach, the Tara complex, the Rathcroghan complex; and the western stone forts.

Ireland is spectacularly under-represented on the UNESCO world heritage site list. Italy has 50 sites on the list, while Germany has 39. Afghanistan, much of which has been war-torn since Ireland ratified the World Heritage Convention in 1979, has the same number of sites on the list as Ireland. We have had the unfortunate troubles in Northern Ireland, but they have not hindered the progress of this State to the same extent as Afghanistan has had its progress hindered.

There is little excuse for the lack of progress in getting Irish sites onto the tentative list. Much of that lack of progress occurred long before the current Minister's tenure, but I am not entirely convinced that there has been much of an improvement under this Government. I had a meeting off my own bat with UNESCO officials in Paris and they were surprised to see somebody from Ireland, given the lack of interaction from here. Very little progress has been made to advance the Irish tentative list since it was handed over in 2010.

I wrote to the Minister, Deputy Heather Humphreys, and I am grateful for her reply. It told me what I already knew with regard to a couple of those sites. The Burren, in particular, largely due to the activities of Clare County Council, is advancing, which is very welcome. Likewise, it looks like the historic city of Dublin may also advance, or what was left of it after the wanton destruction that took place under previous city managers. Again, that was long before the Minister's tenure in politics. Wood Quay was destroyed but it almost seemed to be a point of pride for certain city managers.

Now, however, the relevant local authority does not seem to want to advance Clonmacnoise. As a result, the early monastic sites cannot advance either since Clonmacnoise is one of them. Similarly, the local authority in Kerry does not seem to want to advance one of the western stone forts there, which means that they will all fail to advance.

Local authorities should recognise the benefits of advancing such sites. Most locations get a 30% increase in tourism numbers in the year following their designation as UNESCO world heritage sites. That increase in tourism would be hugely advantageous for any such locations here, although it is up to individual local authorities to adopt their own approach.

Clare County Council is advancing the Burren and is also proposing to purchase Inis Cealtra. I welcome the council's initiative in that regard, which is being done with its own funds. The State could and should play a role in seeking to get world heritage status for sites. It would be an important recognition of our heritage that we should be proud of and seek to promote. Such a designation also has a monetary value through the increase in tourism. What does the Minister's Department propose to do in this regard? If it does not propose to do very much, could it devolve some responsibilities and funding to local authorities that want to advance such sites? I appreciate, however, that some local authorities are not as interested in UNESCO designation, for whatever reason.

2:15 pm

Photo of Heather HumphreysHeather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this issue and for the opportunity to clarify the position.

Having a site progressed from being on a national tentative list to its inscription by UNESCO on the world heritage list is a long and involved process that requires comprehensive management plans for the site, full agreement with local interests, significant local authority actions and support and, finally, the production of highly detailed nomination documents that require significant financial investment.

Each stage of the process has to be quality controlled and checked by experts to ensure that the nomination documentation reaches the high standards laid down by UNESCO. We are working at all times to UNESCO standards and requirements and not to any local framework.

Ireland's current tentative world heritage list has come about from a very comprehensive, thorough and inclusive process undertaken by a panel of Irish and international heritage experts specifically appointed for that purpose. The process included full public consultation and an in-depth review of all proposed candidate sites. The tentative list, as the Deputy outlined, produced by the expert group contains the following sites: the Burren, the Céide Fields, the monastic city of Clonmacnoise, the historic city of Dublin, early medieval monastic sites, the royal sites of Ireland, and the western stone forts.

In September 2013 my Department held a seminar to explain the next steps in the process to the local authorities and local groups from the areas with proposals that had successfully made it on to the tentative list. The objective was to gauge the extent of the support that would be available to advance these proposals and also to set out the work that would be involved and the associated costs. After the seminar, the representatives that are now most actively engaged with my Department in pushing on with their proposals are those from the Burren and the royal sites of Ireland.

In both these cases, initial technical evaluation reports, financed by the local authorities, have been produced to ensure that all are aware of the strengths and weaknesses in their proposals. The fundamental requirement is that each site must be capable of demonstrating outstanding universal value to UNESCO. Technical evaluations have been produced for each of the six sites forming part of the royal sites serial nomination. The Burren representatives are working on their version. My Department has arranged for the royal sites technical evaluation to be examined by an acknowledged expert. This process, financed by my Department, will be repeated in the case of the Burren evaluation later this year.

The next steps will involve developing management plans for each site, which is a UNESCO requirement, and the designation of core and buffer zones in each case. At each stage local consultation is required. This process will also have to take into account the fact that some sites will be managed by the Office of Public Works, others by local authorities and two monuments on the royal sites list are privately owned. Another, Eamhain Macha in Armagh, is in another jurisdiction with different laws and heritage practices.

The culmination of these steps will be the creation of the full nomination documents for each site. These will also be evaluated by experts and a recommendation made as to whether the dossier, as it is called, is of sufficiently high standard to make it through the UNESCO evaluation process.

Our built and natural heritage legacy is a key component of our tourism offering in Ireland. It gives us a distinct comparative advantage that sets our tourist offering above and apart from those of other nations. Additional world Heritage sites would add further to that advantage and I am committed to supporting the current proposals in every way that I can.

The process is a lengthy one and we must remember that all of the work at every stage must be supported and developed from the local level up, with stakeholder buy-in and commitment at each stage. While this will add to the timescale, it is infinitely preferable than a top-down approach that fails to engage with local communities. It also ensures a far better chance of best care and support for the protection and preservation of these marvellous sites into the future.

I am pleased to be able report the progress that has been made to date in this area, and I will continue to help the process in every way I can.

Photo of Michael McNamaraMichael McNamara (Clare, Labour)
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It is clear from what the Minister has said that the road to getting UNESCO designation is long and difficult, but in the case of some of the sites on this list, it is simply a road to nowhere. The local authority in Kerry has said that it is not interested. In the Minister's letter to me, and I appreciate she might not have been adequately briefed by her officials, she states:

Kerry County Council informed the Department that it did not wish to be involved in progressing the potential Western Stone Forts nomination (which includes Cahercommaun in Co. Clare) ... This was also the case in Clonmacnoise, which had obvious implications both for the potential nomination of the site in its own right, as well as for its status as a crucial element of the potential serial nomination of the Early Medieval Monastic Sites, which of course includes Inis Cealtra.
If Kerry or Offaly County Councils, or whatever county councils, are not interested in this, that is their right. The Minister did say it should not be a top-down approach and should involve local communities and local authorities, but if they do not want to move forward, surely that should not affect every other site on the early monastic list, which includes Glendalough, Durrow and Inis Cealtra, which I am most concerned with because it is in my constituency. There was also a report into promoting Lough Derg and one of the findings was that it lacked an iconic site that could be used as the centrepiece of marketing it. That is clearly the beautiful early monastic site of Inis Cealtra, and Clare County Council is at an advanced stage in seeking to acquire it. Can we move forward with that without Clonmacnoise? Can studies be done on it? In my letter to the Minister I outlined that UNESCO had said there is an upstream process where rather than incurring all the expense of going through the nomination process only for it to be refused, experts can be engaged at an earlier stage to examine whether it is feasible to do this.

Can funding be devolved to our progressive county councils who want to move this forward both because they recognise the important heritage, which is a huge value in itself and also its tourist value?

Photo of Marcella Corcoran KennedyMarcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Thank you, Deputy. I call the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, to answer.

Photo of Michael McNamaraMichael McNamara (Clare, Labour)
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Can funding be devolved to move this forward or are we going to allow, in effect, a power of veto on the part of some county councils which simply are not interested in their own heritage or in national heritage?

Photo of Heather HumphreysHeather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I listened carefully to the Deputy and I share his views on the importance and value of securing world heritage status for these sites as quickly as possible. I take on board what he said about the progressive county councils. When county councils work with us, it does make it much easier. When we have their assistance it is preferable, but my Department will continue to push for progress on the sites that are moving ahead while staying in touch with the others on the tentative list, with a view to getting them to move on should they wish to do so. We will engage with them, and we will try to move them along.

We are working closely with the local authorities and the local interest groups, as the Deputy knows, in regard to the Burren and the royal sites. I am also aware that the historic city of Dublin nomination is being actively followed up by Dublin City Council, and my Department is engaged with the council to help and guide them with the process. Once the nomination documentation has been sent to UNESCO, it usually takes about 18 months for it to be examined and for the related site visits and reports. It is only at that stage that the UNESCO World Heritage Committee is in a position to decide on whether to approve a nomination for inscription on the world heritage list.

Photo of Michael McNamaraMichael McNamara (Clare, Labour)
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That is not true.

Photo of Marcella Corcoran KennedyMarcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Please do not interrupt the Minister, Deputy.

Photo of Heather HumphreysHeather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I hope I have clarified this but I take the Deputy's point that there are county councils that are not interested in getting involved in this process. I have taken on board what the Deputy said.

Photo of Michael McNamaraMichael McNamara (Clare, Labour)
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Will anything be done about it?

Photo of Marcella Corcoran KennedyMarcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I understand Deputy Regina Doherty is deferring her Topical Issue matter.

Photo of Regina DohertyRegina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I am, yes.

Photo of Kathleen LynchKathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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I was going to wait until after I had taken my own Topical Issue to inform the House of this but I understand that the Minister of State, Deputy Humphreys, has dealt with the first matter. I am dealing with the second matter, and all other Topical Issue matters are to be deferred because the three Ministers at the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport are unavailable. The Minister, Deputy Donohoe, will take these on 31 March.

2:25 pm

Photo of Marcella Corcoran KennedyMarcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Is Deputy Stanton also agreeable to that deferral?

Photo of David StantonDavid Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Very much so.