Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for the opportunity to raise this issue. I acknowledge the presence of the Minister. I have spoken with her before on the issue and she is familiar with some of my views on it from my work in the education committee. While I believe that forum might be better placed to further address some of the issues I have, I would like to get ministerial approval and support in the House. Ultimately, I would like to see a comprehensive review of the third level structure that pertains to the awarding of grants.

I want to express my full confidence in SUSI. After its establishment, SUSI proved a huge source of disappointment to the Opposition and the media because it got its act together and did a tremendous job in awarding grants. Its work is universally acknowledged, in particular the extraordinary task of bringing all the separate awarding authorities under one body. I do not have an issue with SUSI and the way it does its work, given it does that work within the parameters set for it.

The issue is that the awarding system is very cut and dried. If people are €20 under the threshold, they are eligible to get a grant, maintenance and fees for their child who is going to college, but if they are €20 over the threshold, they are refused the full grant and any other help whatsoever. It is very difficult for people to stomach the fact a €20 difference in wages can mean so much. I understand there are gradients in terms of the amount awarded under the adjacent rate which is related to the distance a person lives from the college. However, if somebody is marginally over the cut-off point, which is approximately €42,000 for a typical family of three or four, there should be some flexibility in the system so that a person is entitled to get, say, 60%, 70%, 80% or 90% of a grant. In this day and age, surely the IT systems in place could manage the awarding of grants in a manner that is more proportionate to people's income and not so reliant on the very black and white cut-off thresholds we have all boxed ourselves into.

While that is being done, in tandem, I would like to see more flexibility being built into the system of appeals. My experience of current appeals is that discretion is not being allowed and officials are only concerned with whether the rules of the scheme are being adhered to. This is my bigger issue. While we need to change the structures that SUSI operates, in the meantime the appeals system should be examined

For example, a parent who works in the health sector recently attended my clinic in Clonakilty in west Cork. As part of the Haddington Road agreement in the past two years, she got a one-off payment of €600 or €700, which has meant she is ineligible for the SUSI grant. Her child has to travel a very long distance from west Cork every week while she is working. She explained to me that she is now in a vicious circle because she is trying to do overtime every minute she can get in order to make ends meet and to get her child through college and pay for his fees, accommodation and food, given she has to pay for everything. That is very difficult for her but, next year, she will be in a worse scenario as she will be further over the limit because of the overtime she has worked, so she will be punished even further and will have even less of a remote chance.

In essence, I have two requests. First, I ask for this to be raised in the education committee as I believe it might be a forum where, with the guidance and assistance of the Minister, and her presence and that of her officials, we could look comprehensively at the awards structure that is in place at present with a view to, on a gradual basis, giving 70%, 80% and 90% awards to those who are marginally over the thresholds. Second, and more important and urgently, I ask that real discretion be applied to the appeals mechanism that exists at present.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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I know the Deputy has a particular interest in this area and thank him for raising the matter. As he is aware, under the terms of the student grant scheme, grant assistance is awarded to students who meet the prescribed conditions of funding, including those relating to nationality, residency, previous academic attainment and means. The assessment of means under the Department's student grant scheme is based on gross income from all sources. Therefore, all income is assessed from the same starting point, eliminating any distortion which might arise from different spending decisions.

Unfortunately, it is not currently proposed to depart from the existing arrangements for the determination of the eligibility for a student grant and allow for discretion to be applied to education grant application decisions that fall marginally outside the income guidelines. The means test arrangements of the student grant scheme are applied nationally. In the case of both employed and self-employed applicants, gross income is assessed with certain specified social welfare and health service payments excluded. The income limits for grant eligibility are increased relative to the number of students in a family applying for a grant. In recognition of the additional cost to families where more than one person is attending college, an increment for each additional relevant person can be applied to the income thresholds at the rates outlined in the student grant scheme. The maximum increment that can be applied per relevant person is €4,980.

The eligibility of an applicant, or the level of the grant awarded, may be re-assessed by the grant-awarding authority in the event of a change of circumstances in the academic year. The applicant should, in the first instance, contact the relevant awarding body and notify it of the change in circumstances. As the Deputy said, there is also an appeals system.

I understand Deputy Daly is looking for a forum in which we can address these issues. I would certainly be happy to go to the education committee to address the whole area.

Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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I remember the Minister's predecessor once saying that we, as legislators, come into this House not to accept things as they are but to change them. That is our job, as legislators. While officials will always say this is the scheme that is there at the moment, and it is too difficult or cumbersome to change it, or there is too much work involved, I do not accept that. I did not come here to roll along; I came here to make changes for the better and to improve circumstances for people.

I urge the Minister to lead from the front on the political side. While the departmental officials might be keen to tell us in their script that they have no plans to change this at the moment, it is our job in politics to listen to the people, get their experience and come back in here to lead change. I welcome the Minister's commitment to attend the committee with her officials so we can debate this in more detail and deal with it in a more comprehensive way.

There are a number of other issues. There is the whole difficulty with PAYE workers, who find the grants system extremely frustrating because it is so black and white and given the P60 states the bottom-line figures. On the other hand, and we have to call a spade a spade, people who are self-employed have some wriggle room in terms of using previous years to help their eligibility for a grant. That is a real difficulty for PAYE workers which we must acknowledge. We also have to move away from the black and white finality of the baseline and the approach that if people are €1 over, they are not eligible. I do not think that is fair or equitable, and it is not something the Government should stand over.

The Minister referred to the issue of a change in circumstances. The reality is that if people have a change in circumstances, they have to prove this change of circumstances will affect them for the duration of their time in college. That is a difficult threshold to cross because, while the person can prove it for one year, perhaps given the financial collapse and everything that has gone wrong, the awarding authority can say that things will pick up next year or the year after.

Without going into all of the details, the system is outdated and needs to be re-evaluated and reviewed. I would appreciate a commitment from the Minister to do this. I would certainly be willing to play my part in a review of the current system at an Oireachtas committee.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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The eligibility criteria, including the income thresholds, are reviewed annually, in conjunction with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. We are willing to look at the thresholds and consider what change is required. The Deputy's specific proposal relates to flexibility at the margins. Many of our systems have cut-off points which apply across various Departments and we can always come up with cases that are just outside or inside these limits. I do not propose to change the position, but it is reviewed regularly. I would certainly be willing to attend the Joint Committee on Education and Social Protection which would be a good forum in which to discuss these issues.