Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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122. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills if the threshold relating to the third level grants scheme will be raised to accommodate the children of working persons, including teachers, who can no longer afford to pay for third level education due to the imposition of pension levies and the universal social charge; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [3338/15]

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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The purpose of this question is to ask whether the threshold for the third level grants scheme will be raised to accommodate the children of working people in middle Ireland who can no longer afford to pay third level fees as a result of the imposition of pension levies, the universal social charge, etc. Statistics I received in the past week indicate that 8% of people who work in the public service are in receipt of family income supplement, which is rather alarming. In the past, someone working as a teacher in my neck of the woods would have been seen as being comfortable financially. The sad reality now, however, is that these people cannot afford to pay their mortgages and so on.

Derek Keating (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy can raise those points when the Minister of State has replied. The point of a Member's first contribution in respect of a question is to make some introductory remarks.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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The rates of grant and the income thresholds for the student grant scheme are announced annually as part of the budget process. No changes to the rates or thresholds were included in budget 2015.

The means test arrangements relating to the student grant scheme are applied nationally. In the case of both employed and self-employed applicants, gross income before deduction of income tax or universal social charge is assessed with certain specified social welfare and health service executive payments excluded. Therefore, all income is assessed from the same starting point, eliminating any distortion which might arise from different spending decisions.

Contributions to pension schemes and pension or retirement products, within the limits allowed by the Revenue Commissioners, are deducted in determining the reckonable income of an applicant as set out under the student grant scheme 2014. The reckonable income for the student grant at the standard rate generally observes the percentage changes in average industrial earnings for specified reference periods as provided for by the Central Statistics Office, CSO. The latter provides data to the Department on an annual basis in respect of the dataset of estimates of earnings per week by industrial sector. Analysis of the quarterly data identifies any change to the income thresholds, which are subject to approval by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform.

What I am trying to say is that changes are based on evidence and research. There probably has not been a change in the past year or two.

The Deputy referred specifically to teachers and nurses. Naturally, the funding of education, especially third level education, is an issue for everybody, no matter what his job. Certainly in the past six or seven years, most people in this country have been affected by the changes across the board. We acknowledge that and accept that this is a difficult time. As I always say, we are trying to do our best to stretch the education budget, which includes the grant, as far as we can.

The question of further and future funding of colleges is being considered. A study is being carried out at present, and Mr. Peter Cassells is in charge of it. It will allow for the discussion we need to have on the future of education at higher level. The Deputy is correct to state that everybody is under pressure, including parents and the students going to college. Likewise, colleges and universities are under pressure trying to fund everything, yet we all have big plans for the future. We really must have a conversation in this House on how it will all happen. The study by Mr. Cassells will feed into that and will help us in this area. It is a major area. With so many predicted to go to college and university in the future, this is necessary. There are many pressures exerted on institutions owing to supply and demand, and this is a matter we must monitor for the future. There was no change in budget 2014; the last change was in budget 2013.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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I am not talking specifically about teachers but about all the people working who may have large mortgages. These include young families who find the going tough as a result of the various cuts down through the years. It is a sad day if those going out to work every day are now being put in circumstances in which they cannot afford to send their youngsters to college. I have seen this happen. It is coming down the tracks for us next September and we need to do something to address it.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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We are not oblivious to that fact, and we share the Deputy's concern. That is why a priority for us on coming into government was to try to ensure the working person would not always be hit with increased charges. The Deputy will have noted that in the first three or four austerity budgets, for whatever reason the majority of changes in respect of charges and taxes affected income tax, which affects the working person. The Deputy specifically raised the issue of the working person. We have tried over the past three or four years to address this. It was not the plan originally agreed, so I am not discovering or taking credit for this, but the overall concept of trying to broaden taxes across the board so as not to hit the working person constantly was an objective. Not everyone likes that. Not everyone likes to have water, property or other charges, but having them means one is not constantly increasing income tax. It has to be always worth one's while to go to work, but that has not always been the case in this country. The Government is trying to ensure it is worth one's while at all times, and that means not always raising income tax and, if the opportunity arises, reducing it to try to create more jobs. It is a question of not increasing the rate always. I hope the Deputy understands what we are trying to do in that regard.

The overall funding of universities and higher education is being considered. We will all have to make decisions on that. It will not be a matter for one particular party; each one needs to have a strong position on it.

The Deputy asked about pensions. Contributions to pension schemes and pension or retirement products, within the limits allowed by the Revenue Commissioners, are deducted in determining the reckonable income of an applicant. Similarly, a deduction for the public service pension levy is also allowed where it has not already been reflected in the pay figure shown on the person's P60. Pension contributions by means of a personal retirement savings account, PRSA, retirement annuity contract, RAC, or additional voluntary contributions qualifying for tax relief, appearing on a P21 or notice of assessment on the panel showing tax credits, can be deducted when calculating the reckonable income for student grant scheme purposes.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy Fitzmaurice for tabling this very relevant question. The Minister referred to not increasing income taxes but, of course, the Government did choose to increase the registration fee for those who do not receive a grant, as stated in the question. The registration fee is to increase from what the party of the Minister, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, promised would be €2,000 to €3,000 this coming September. That charge is being placed directly on families, particularly working families, who are trying to send young people to college. This is making it increasingly difficult. It is now impossible for many of them, particularly if they wish to send more than one child at a time. Many families are facing the question of whether they will be able to send one or more children to college.

I ask the Minister of State to comment on access to postgraduate courses. How exactly does the Government expect postgraduate students to be able to fund their way through college in light of the fact that the Minister removed the postgraduate grant during the time of this Government, meaning that one cannot undertake a postgraduate course unless one can afford to do so?

Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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This is one of those areas where we need to have a serious conversation, not only during Question Time. The Cassells report will look at the overall funding of higher education but we need to look at some of the policy decisions, and not only of this and the previous Governments. Let us do so on a non-political basis, if at all possible, because we are talking about education.

One of the factors with which nobody can argue is that if somebody coming out of post-primary education is unable to access higher education, whether due to economic reasons or whatever barrier is in place, the chances of that individual going back to education later in life decreases. That is something we need to rectify. The reality is that we are preventing people from accessing further and higher education based on their ability to pay. That is not a political point but a general education point. We all need to look at this issue seriously.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputies covered a couple of issues. I am glad Deputy O'Brien mentioned not only higher education, but also further education. We must get the message out that further education and training is just as important in some cases to one's access to a job or career as education through the higher education institutions. As most will agree, much work is going on in that area. Hopefully, we will get the message across that there is a choice and there is another route to a career or job with further education as well.

I agree with Deputy O'Brien, as I stated earlier, that we must have a grown-up conversation in this House about how we will fund, and guarantee access to, education in the future. The key, in my opinion, is guaranteed access to third level, further education or training for whatever it is one wants to do. Some countries have a range of such models and here it is very much based on one's ability to pay or to access grant income. There is little access to student loans, if one wants to go that route, and in some cases it is difficult for a student to have that option. It will need a non-political conversation around that.

Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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The current system entrenches inequality.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I did not design the current system. That is what I am saying. I agree with Deputy O'Brien that we must have a look at this. The Cassells report will be part of that. It will give us something to focus on regarding the figures.

I stress it must be a grown-up conversation. The parents of this country expect that and need to be told the truth, and we need to have a clear conversation on how this can happen. All of us here want people to get the education they desire and it is a matter of how that can happen.

As for any cuts in education, as Deputy McConalogue will be aware, when one is faced with a situation where the country has €30 billion less in taxes, and I will not say how it happened, one is left with €30 billion less in one's budgets and there will be changes in all Departments. I wish it did not happen.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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What about the promises that were made?

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I am merely clarifying, I am not even picking anybody here.

Derek Keating (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State is passing the time.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I am not even going there. I am merely saying let us face reality here. There was €30 billion missing, but matters are improving and there are more taxes coming in. This will give us the opportunity to do more in education as we want to do, but we must face facts. The funding was not there to continue what we would have liked to have done and that was why there were changes.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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That is not what the Minister of State said at the last election.

Derek Keating (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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The next question in the name of a Deputy present is Deputy Clare Daly's Question No. 126.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)
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I did not expect it would be that quick.

Derek Keating (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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Sometimes timing is everything.