Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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107. To ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs if he will provide details of all homes and institutions that were excluded from the proposed inquiry into mother and baby homes, including the Magdalene laundries and Westbank, County Wicklow; the grounds on which they were excluded; the measures being put in place to ensure that survivors of these excluded institutions, now all in their senior years, will be heard, acknowledged and entitled to redress; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2373/15]

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I want to establish the number of mother and baby homes and similar institutions that have not been included in the terms of reference of the new commission of investigation. I am keen to receive the full list from the Minister. I would like to know why certain institutions have been excluded. Moreover, I would like to receive an assurance that those who have gone through the harrowing experience of placement in excluded entities will have the opportunity to be heard in the course of commission of inquiry sittings, that their hurt and pain will be acknowledged and that they will not be excluded from any redress scheme that may arise at the conclusion of the inquiry.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Members who engaged on this issue as their contributions were very helpful. In particular, I thank all those involved who consulted me during the course of the setting of the terms of reference, many of whom were affected directly by the mother and baby homes.

I announced the proposed terms of reference for the commission of investigation into mother and baby homes and certain related matters on Friday, 9 January. Relevant details are available on the Department's website, www.dcya.gov.ie. Since the announcement there has been a general acknowledgement of the comprehensive scope of the proposed investigative framework which reflects the range of matters the Government was asked to consider by the House and is a fair and balanced response to the many requests for related issues to be included.

During the course of consultations with those most centrally affected by these issues, as well as political colleagues across the spectrum, a clear consensus emerged on the need to thoroughly examine the experience of those who had spent time in mother and baby homes. These institutions have not been the central focus of previous statutory investigations. The approach taken, therefore, places a deliberate emphasis on the experiences of women and children who spent time in mother and baby homes during the period 1922 to 1998, over three quarters of a century. Accordingly, the terms of reference focus on institutions that can be identified as having both the primary function of providing sheltered and supervised ante and post-natal facilities for single mothers and their children, as well as an ethos which those running the institutions considered as one promoting a regime of work, training or education as part of an overall approach to either rehabilitating single mothers before they left the institution or giving them training to live independently. The commission will also investigate a representative sample of those county homes which had a considerable focus on these services.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House

On the basis of the information available I am satisfied that the institutions included in schedule 1 to the draft order meet these criteria, whereas the institutions referred to by the Deputy do not, as they did not provide this specific range of services. However, it is not accurate to describe these institutions as being excluded from the commission's work. The commission is tasked with examining the extent to which other institutions were part of the entry or exit pathways for single mothers and children into or leaving these mother and baby homes. It is certainly open to the commission to give consideration to the role of the institutions referred to by the Deputy as part of the pathways and, in particular, the practices and procedures for the placement of children outside mother and baby homes. This will be a significant strand of the investigations of the commission. The issues to be examined in the social history module also explicitly cite adoption societies, homes for infants or children and Magdalen laundries.

It is important to be clear and realistic about our expectations. The commission is not intended to investigate every type of institution where it is considered there might have been past deficits or failings, nor could it; rather, my objective is to establish a focused commission with all of the necessary powers capable of establishing effectively relevant facts in a reasonable time frame. This specificity is required under the enabling legislation. Moreover, other inquiries have examined concerns about a wide range of settings, including children's homes and Magdalen laundries.

The proposed arrangements, in particular, Article 6 of the terms of reference, ensure the commission will have sufficient opportunities to identify additional matters it considers may warrant investigation. It is specifically tasked with reporting to me recommendations necessary in this regard.

The commission will be critical in coming to terms with our history. Some of what we learn will be painful, but the commission will establish how we, as a society, responded to single women and their children who needed support and assistance, rather than judgment.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I acknowledge the effort invested in preparation for the launch of the commission of inquiry, but the Minister has not replied to the question asked and I am keen to establish the reason.

The Minister's answer does not in any way shed light on it. I am deeply concerned about the exclusion of Avoca House in County Wicklow; Braemor House in County Cork; St. Gerard's, Herbert Avenue; St. Philomena's, Leeson Street and later Northbrook Road; St. Joseph's baby home, Stamullen; St. Kevin's Institution, James' Street; St. Patrick's Infant Hospital, Temple Hill, Blackrock; St. Rita's Nursing Home, Sandford Road; the Nursery Rescue Society, Fermoy; the Westbank or Mayil orphanage, County Wicklow and many other institutions that should be addressed in the course of the at least three-year inquiry that lies ahead. Since the public launch on Friday week last, I have met people who have gone through a number of these institutions. I think back to the commentary of one woman who went through the Westbank entity in County Wicklow. She spoke about being robbed of her identity and of all that was precious. She is no longer a young woman and said she was being robbed yet again. She is not one of those to be properly included. I have always outlined to the Minister and his predecessors that inclusivity is the critical factor by which we should gauge this particular undertaking. On the basis of her evidence and the evidence of others I have met who have been through the Westbank experience, there is absolutely no question but that it ticks the box as having performed a role as a mother and baby home. That was a distinct and integral part of its work.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy's question relates to the Magdalen laundries and Westbank, County Wicklow. On the basis of the information available, I am satisfied that the institutions included in Schedule 1 to the draft order meet the criteria, whereas the institutions referred to by the Deputy do not, as they did not provide the specific range of services. However, it is not accurate to describe them as being excluded from the commission's work. The commission is tasked with examining the extent to which other institutions were part of the entry or exit pathways for single mothers and children into or leaving these mother and baby homes. It is certainly open to it to give consideration to the role of the institutions referred to by the Deputy as being part of the pathways and, in particular, the practices and procedures for the placement of children outside mother and baby homes. This will form a significant strand of its investigations. The issues to be examined in the social history module also explicitly cite adoption societies, homes for infants or children and Magdalen laundries.

It is important to be clear and realistic as to our expectations. The commission is not intended to, nor could it, investigate every type of institution where it is considered there might have been past deficits or failings; rather, my objective is to establish a focused commission with all of the necessary powers that will be capable of establishing effectively relevant facts in a reasonable timeframe. This specificity is required under the enabling legislation. It is also the case that other inquiries have examined concerns about a wide range of settings, including children’s homes and Magdalen laundries.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I have to try my best and take the positives from what the Minister said, namely, that people are not being excluded if an entity has not been named. I hope that will prove to be the case. I ask the Minister to make his response and wishes in that regard patently and abundantly clear to the commission of investigation membership.

Child trafficking is not a new phenomenon. We know from the evidence that children were moved back and forth across the Border without proper or prior approval or recording. They were moved back and forth by individuals and entities with specific religious outlooks. It is critically important that the commission of investigation properly recognise this fact. Any advertising to inform people of the opportunities the commission will present must include advertising north of the Border, as well as in other settings in Britain, the United States and elsewhere. That is very important.

Will the Minister confirm the Northern dimension to this issue, including in respect of the entities which operated in the manner I described?

The Minister may not be able to answer my next question but I am flagging the issue now because we will have an opportunity to address it more substantively tomorrow. Is he in a position to advise if researchers will have access to the Clandillon index card file, which contains information on boarded out children? Does he have any idea where the file is held? Will it be among the documentation that will be required, sought and secured by the commission of inquiry in the course of its work?

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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The proposed arrangements, in particular Article 6 of the terms of reference, ensure the commission will have sufficient opportunity to identify any additional matters it considers may warrant investigation. The commission is specifically tasked with reporting to me any recommendations necessary in that regard. It will be critically important in coming to terms with our history and I have no doubt that some of what we learn will be painful.

The commission will establish how we, as a society, responded to single women and their children, who needed support and assistance rather than judgment. The confidential committee is a vitally important aspect of this work. It will be under the control of the commission and will operate under the direction of and be accountable to the commission. Its procedures provide for individuals who wish to have their identity remain confidential during the conduct of the commission and its subsequent reporting. It will produce a report of a general nature on the experiences of the single women and children which the commission may, to the extent it considers appropriate, rely upon to inform the investigation set out in Article 1.

The social history element of this process is also critical. The commission allows us to investigate a wide range of issues. It is not simply an exercise in information gathering per seas the commission also has the power to compel people to produce documents and give evidence.