Dáil debates

Thursday, 15 January 2015

Ceisteanna - Questions - Priority Questions

Commissions of Investigation

9:40 am

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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2. To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality her views on the progression of the work of the independent panel of counsel tasked with reviewing hundreds of allegations of Garda malpractice; and if she will address the concerns of many of the complainants at this stage; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [1490/15]

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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This question raises the same concerns as the previous question. There are growing concerns among the families who have submitted their allegations about this process to either the Minister or the Taoiseach. For example, in the context of the Guerin report, the delay in announcing the commission recommended by Seán Guerin was attributed to the fact that the Minister is awaiting the recommendations. This issue has dragged on and many of the families involved are e-mailing Oireachtas Members saying they want their case included in the terms and conditions of the commission of investigation recommended by Guerin. I am concerned at the way this is developing and I want serious assurances from the Minister on the matter today.

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy has spoken about the length of time involved. In regard to the cases that have been referred to the review mechanism, many of them have been on people's desks and in various places in the system over the past decade and some cases go back much further. Many of these cases have been through a variety of processes, including independent investigations or the courts, while no action has been taken on some, other than that a person has made a complaint expressing a concern about how he or she was dealt with either in the criminal justice system or by gardaí. It is clear there is a wide variety of cases. These cases have been in the system for some time, some of them for ten years or longer. It is important, therefore, that we take the time to examine them in detail, that we give the counsel the time to do that and to review all of the paperwork that has come in, and then make a decision. I have allowed the time for this.

In regard to the delay in implementing the Guerin commission recommendations, before we saw the scale of the number of cases referred to the review mechanism, I hoped initially that the Guerin commission would be able to encompass them. However, due to the number of cases referred, it soon became clear that in the context of the terms of reference of the Guerin commission, we would not be able to make a decision about what precisely should be referred. Therefore, it would have been inappropriate to include these cases at that time. I was keen also to move ahead with the Guerin commission. The Government took a decision that we would follow precisely what Seán Guerin had recommended in his report for the commission. Most Deputies appreciate that Mr. Guerin made a series of recommendations. We followed those recommendations precisely and left nothing out. The approach we took was to make a comprehensive examination of what was recommended.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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When I first heard about the independent panel, I welcomed it because of the unprecedented number of cases. Not all of these cases will be valid, but some will and I believe some are strong cases and are definitely eligible for an independent commission of investigation. However, the difficulty is that these cases have all been lumped together and I understand that until they have all been reviewed, we will not have an assessment. Can interim recommendations be made along the way? For example, can the counsel say, for example, that they have looked at 20 cases and make recommendations in regard to those cases, rather than make people wait for a long time until all the cases have been reviewed, thereby increasing people's anxiety?

Also, currently the panel is looking through the documentary evidence provided to it. Some families have the capacity to explain the case in great detail, but others may not have that capacity. A face-to-face interview to clarify some of the matters raised might be helpful. Will the Minister permit the independent counsel to meet some of the complainants face to face to clarify any matters of which they are unsure?

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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The decision was taken that there would be a review of all of the written material, and that decision stands. Many of these families have lived with their concerns over a long period. It is important we take adequate time to examine the complaints and that we give the counsel the time to come to a decision on what recommendation they should make. It would be counterproductive to start dealing with the cases in the manner the Deputy suggests. I want to deal with them comprehensively because I want to see the trends and themes that emerge as well as the recommendations for each case.

The counsel want to progress and finish the work and I am confident that will be completed in the near future. This issue will not drag on for many more months. I am confident that at that point I will be able to respond to the complainants individually. In the normal course of events, many people have concerns about how they have been dealt with by a justice system, and approximately 5% of complaints internationally are held up when complaints are made against a body such as the Garda Síochána. There will be many cases on which no further action will be taken, but obviously there will be cases where further action is recommended by counsel. I will have the overview of that in the near future and will publish as much information as I can when I get to that point.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister is saying that she does not believe this review will take much longer than another few months. My understanding is that she continues to refer allegations to this panel which means that if she is ready to publish in two months time, a new case may be referred to it all of a sudden. I would like an assurance from her that by March or some time in the next couple of months this will be ready so that families can be assured they will have a decision.

My question concerns Garda malpractice, but some of the concerns relate to the wider criminal justice system. The independent panel may decide there are issues regarding Garda malpractice, but this issue may need a wider commission of investigation. Take for example the Shane O'Farrell case in Monaghan where the concerns of the family are wider than that of Garda malpractice. I believe that case will require a commission of investigation when the time comes.

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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It is precisely that question the counsel are addressing. They are examining whether there are cases that will require further action, such as a commission. It is a serious matter to refer an individual case or to set up a commission of inquiry. Therefore, we must be sure this is the best way forward for those families for whom this is recommended.

I think the Deputy will agree that it is a very serious action to take, so we want to be absolutely sure that if there are cases in which a commission is recommended, significant thought has been given to that. I have said to the panel that this is an option for its consideration if it believes a commission of inquiry would be valuable and would help the families, and if there are issues of such concern that they warrant a commission of investigation. Again, I make the point that in respect of the cases that have been referred to - and the Deputy knows this because some of them have been on his desk - there is a very wide variety of complaints about the criminal justice system. When I have the complete overview, I will be in a position to say which ones relate to people's experiences in court, decisions of the DPP, GSOC and how complaints have been handled. It will then become clear whether further action can be taken, and I will be guided by what the council has to say about that.