Dáil debates

Tuesday, 16 December 2014

Other Questions

Public Private Partnerships Data

3:20 pm

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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95. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the current level of exposure of the State and its agencies to public private partnerships, PPPs; his plans to increase the use of PPPs; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [47803/14]

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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In July 2012, I announced a €2.2 billion stimulus package that included the launch of for the time time of a new PPP programme. The PPP projects, involving estimated overall capital investment of approximately €1.4 billion, are being delivered by a range of Departments and agencies across the education, transport, health and justice sectors. All the projects have been issued to the market.

The capital review, which is being completed by my Department and will be published in the new year, will outline the total level of unitary payments on operational PPPs . It will also include an outline of unitary payment commitments for the programme currently in procurement and offer a complete picture of the ongoing cost of PPP projects accruing to the State. In overall terms, the report of the capital review will highlight that the State will expect to face annual PPP charges of approximately €440 million from 2020.

In budget 2015, I announced that it is this Government's intention to deliver social housing units by 2017 via PPPs as one of the various modalities to deliver such units. The units will be provided by using the successful model that has helped deliver 23 schools in recent years. Following on from the budget, my colleague, the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, has announced a comprehensive housing strategy that involves providing up to 35,000 additional housing units by 2020. The strategy confirms a range of delivery methods, including the extension of the PPP Programme announced.

It is my intention to use the forthcoming capital review to help inform future policy in relation to PPPs. Such partnerships have enabled the Government to make additional crucial investments across a range of areas, while respecting the constraints of our immediate fiscal parameters. Although our fiscal position continues to improve, there is a need to continue to maintain strict budgetary discipline while investing in critical infrastructure. PPPs provide government with one approach to delivering such infrastructure. The capital review will offer an assessment of the affordability and desirability of future PPP programmes and help determine the context in which such programmes should be established.

3:30 pm

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I asked the Minister to give me a list of the current exposure. The Minister is telling me that we will get it some time in the spring as part of the capital review.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I have indicated that the expectation is that it will be of the order of €440 million annually-----

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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When will we see that figure? The Minister is saying that the capital review will have the breakdown of the unitary payment.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Early in the new year. I do not have with it.

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I will wait for that. A large element of the €2.2 billion stimulus package the Minister mentioned last year related to primary care services. The outgoing Minister for Health had identified pet projects and pet locations. Could the Minister confirm whether any of those have gone to market because he said education, transport and justice projects have all gone to tender but they might not be back yet? That is fair enough. The Minister missed the health projects. The health projects were a controversial part of that project. There was a list of 20 primary care centres dotted around different Ministers' constituencies at the time. Have they been abandoned? How is that shaping up? Is it possible as part of that capital review to use the expertise of the National Treasury Management Agency to see whether any of those can be bought out and re-financed?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I can give the Deputy a breakdown of the PPPs per sector. In health, 14 primary care centres across the country will be delivered. A shortlist of tenderers has been selected and the final tenders are due to be returned in February 2015. Those 14 centres, which are not substantial in money terms overall, will be delivered by PPPs. The roads sector investment will see the delivery of three projects that I have indicated. There are three projects in education. Two bundles of schools will be delivered, one of which is due to achieve financial close this week. The flagship Grangegorman project will consolidate the current Dublin Institute of Technology into one centre of excellence. Tenders for that were received at the end of November. Again, we expect a preferred bidder to determined in February but I can give the Deputy the full list.

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I look forward to receiving that list. The Minister is concentrating on what he calls the stimulus package of €2.2 billion. My question was broader and concerned all the PPPs out there. It was not specifically concentrating on the ones that are currently working their way through the system.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Does the Deputy mean previous-----

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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What is the unitary value of the roads and schools projects out there? I am referring to the ongoing commitments out there for the past-----

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The totality-----

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Yes. I understand that the commitments relating to the PPPs out there are of the order of €5 billion. Perhaps I am wrong. I understand that approximately up to €1 billion worth of those are in water and wastewater services through various local authorities. I believe these might now be transferred to Irish Water but the legislation before the House is now saying that the Government will automatically transfer the assets of local authorities to Irish Water but not necessarily the liabilities. That is the legislation that is yet to be passed here which is an extraordinary new situation. Who will be left with the liability for the PPPs that are currently on the books where the asset is transferring automatically to Irish Water? I want the totality. Roads and schools are the big issue. When the Minister is sending the information, could he include the totality and not just last year's stimulus package?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I have given the Deputy all the PPPs that have come on stream since I became Minister. There are, obviously, liabilities from the new Courts of Justice and other things that were built under PPPs under the previous Administration or Administrations. I will give the Deputy the consolidated unitary payments in a written reply.