Dáil debates

Thursday, 4 December 2014

12:00 pm

Photo of Niall CollinsNiall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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When people come to live, work or socialise in Dublin, they want to have the experience of living in a modern, vibrant city which includes our many great historical and cultural buildings, as well as our sports amenities. We all welcome this and want to keep it that way. Unfortunately, there is a dark side to the capital city which we witnessed during the past week with the death of Mr. Jonathan Corrie in the shadow of the front gate of this building. We also saw in the past few days detailed on the front page of The Irish Daily Maila number of people engaged in drug taking at the rear of the Leinster House complex. Again, this happened in broad daylight, which was truly shocking.

Yesterday the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality heard from the Dublin City Business Association, which represents vintners, restaurants, hotels, businesses in the Temple Bar area and many other businesses operating in Dublin city centre. The delegation from the association told a tale of crime in Dublin city centre that was quite shocking. It told us about shoplifting, drug taking, handbag snatching, aggressive begging and mobile phone theft. Unfortunately, we have been raising this issue for the past few weeks and months with the Tánaiste who has been in denial. The association points out that the number of gardaí in Dublin city centre has fallen by about 12%, that seven of the eight Garda stations on the north and south sides of the Dublin city centre are are down approximately 160 gardaí. It also points out that the operation of the Garda roster is hampering the operations of its members' businesses and how members of the public live and work in Dublin city centre. To back all of this up, the association conducted an independent survey which detailed that 87% of people believed there should be a greater Garda presence in Dublin city centre.

A number of weeks ago my colleague, Deputy Barry Cowen, raised this issue with the Tánaiste. It is fair to describe her response as one of total denial and say there is a disconnect. The Government is in charge. There is a problem in Dublin city centre in respect of the issues I have outlined. Yesterday at the meeting of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality, the Dublin City Business Association detailed it graphically. Is the Tánaiste willing to agree to implement what the association is looking for, namely, boosting garda number in Dublin city centre? Is she willing to agree to release a quantity of funds to allow An Garda Síochána to operate in a meaningful fashion, by example, by giving it an adequate overtime budget, and to deal with the concerns of people who live and work in Dublin city centre that are being raised by the legitimate representatives of the business representations in order that they can engage in their normal day-to-day business, personal and social lives unencumbered by the scourge of anti-social behaviour and crime?

(Interruptions).

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Deputy referred to the very sad death of Mr. Jonathan Corrie earlier this week. I again extend my condolences to his family and friends. clearly, he was a person who was at the centre of a very loving family and a loving and supportive network of relations and friends. We should offer our condolences to them.

The second point made by the Deputy concerned drugs and drug taking. Without doubt, anybody who has lived and spent time in Dublin city centre will know that for a long period of time drugs have posed a very significant problem, including persons who to a degree are in rehabilitation and attending methadone centres. I have met people from the Dublin City Business Association in recent times, including its CEO, Mr. Richard Guiney, who is spearheading the efforts of Dublin city centre retailers and the council to make Dublin city centre a more attractive place. The critical issue relating to the aggressive begging and shoplifting referenced at the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality yesterday is that much of this activity is engaged in by people in the city centre with substance abuse problems. The critical issue for An Garda Síochána is the provision of adequate community policing resources.

The Deputy is aware that in recent days the Government gave the go-ahead to introduce a significant Supplementary Estimate for the Garda covering such matters as overtime and investment both this year and next year in the provision of additional resources, including IT and vehicles. The training of the first 100 Garda recruits in Templemore commenced this year and budget 2015 provides for a further complement of gardaí to be trained. As both city centre and suburban Garda stations in Dublin are included in the framework, many of the recruits to be trained will be allocated to stations in the the city centre and the suburbs. I strongly favour a visible Garda presence through a community-based policing force on the streets. When I spoke previously about this matter, I said this was one of the things the Garda was doing in the city centre. Gardaí are calling to premises and homes in both north and south inner city areas. I said this initiative by the Garda had been very well received.

As the independent Garda authority gets under way under the chairmanship of Ms Josephine Feehily who is retiring as chairperson of the Revenue Commissioners, there will be an opportunity to look at policing models to achieve the maximum effect in dealing with street crime and the difficulties the Deputy describes on the streets of Dublin. This should be a priority for the new independent policing authority.

Photo of Niall CollinsNiall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste's reference to a Supplementary Estimate for the Department of Justice and Equality shows how little a handle she has of the issue of crime in Dublin because the Supplementary Estimate went towards plugging the deficit in payroll costs in An Garda Síochána this year. An Garda Síochána is trying to do its job in Dublin city centre with one arm tied behind its back because of a lack of resources.

The Tánaiste said she had met Mr. Richard Guiney, CEO of the Dublin City Business Association, but she did not tell us what she intended to do to address his concerns because the association has asked for a number of specific issues to be addressed. Unfortunately, given the lack of detail, those who are concerned, including members of the public who live in Dublin city centre, are less than reassured by the Tánaiste's comments that she is listening with real concern on the issues being raised.

What is her response, as deputy leader of the Government, to these concerns? Does she feel Dublin city centre is adequately resourced and policed in terms of the resources available to An Garda Síochána to deal with the issues arising? When people come to Dublin to work and to socialise, or as tourists, they want a positive experience. Unfortunately, there is a disconnect in this regard and when one looks beneath surface appearances, one sees problems in the city centre, in Temple Bar, along O'Connell Street and on the Liffey boardwalk. These problems are not being addressed and I do not get a sense of urgency in the Tánaiste's comments in dealing with the issue adequately. What undertakings, if any, did she give to Mr. Guiney and his colleagues in the various associations and how does she intend to deal with the problem?

12:10 pm

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I am not sure how familiar the Deputy is with the issue given how he spoke about it. He is obviously not familiar with the public order units in Store Street on the northside and on the southside of the city centre or aware that public order offences have decreased by 7% in the south central area, around Pearse Street, and 19% in the Store Street area.

Photo of Niall CollinsNiall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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Does the Garda Síochána Inspectorate agree with those figures?

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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When I spoke about this previously-----

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The Tánaiste knows that ordinary Dublin communities are being intimidated by crime but she is doing nothing about it.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Please, Deputy, resume your seat.

Photo of Niall CollinsNiall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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The Garda Síochána Inspectorate does not stand over the figures.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Entire communities are being intimidated.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste is replying.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The Tánaiste is misleading the Dáil. Communities across the northside of Dublin are being intimidated but she is doing nothing about it.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Resume your seat.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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It is a disgrace.

Photo of Arthur SpringArthur Spring (Kerry North-West Limerick, Labour)
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Where are your pom-poms?

Photo of John LyonsJohn Lyons (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Withdraw that remark.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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You are not Mary Lou and you should withdraw that remark.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I am trying to deal with the real issues. I believe the victims who are being intimidated in this city.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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You are not Mary Lou.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Please resume your seat.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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We are below the 13,000 figure for the Garda. That is another misleading comment.

Photo of John LyonsJohn Lyons (Dublin North West, Labour)
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You are out of order.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I am on my feet. The Deputy should resume his seat.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I am surprised at Deputy Lyons. He should know better.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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This is Leaders' Questions.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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For the first time in a long time, 100 gardaí are finishing their training and there will be another hundred next year due to the reopening of the Garda college in Templemore. Deputy Niall Collins seems to be unaware-----

Photo of Niall CollinsNiall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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I am not unaware. You are unaware.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----of the initiative that the Garda has taken-----

Photo of Niall CollinsNiall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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The Garda Síochána Inspectorate does not stand over the crime statistics outlined by the Tánaiste.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Allow the Tánaiste to reply.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Deputy seems to be unaware of the work-----

Photo of Niall CollinsNiall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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No, I am not.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----that the Garda is doing in the city centre in terms of going door to door to meet residents and businesses on the northside and the southside. The only thing that will address the difficulties on the city's streets is a visible Garda presence. I welcome that presence and the Garda Commissioner is focusing on feet on the street. That is the way to reassure people and to provide a solid Garda presence. Providing extra numbers is a function of training extra gardaí and we are doing that, unlike the Members opposite, who closed down Templemore. They put the shutters on Templemore.

Photo of Barry CowenBarry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Government is pulling down the shutters on itself.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Not only that but they also cut Garda pay by 17%. They need to think again about their response.

Photo of Barry CowenBarry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Government is pulling down the shutters on Garda stations all over the country.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The way to address crime in Dublin city, as in Cork, in Galway, in Limerick and in villages, is by having a visible Garda presence in the community. That is what the Garda is doing in Dublin city centre.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I want to raise a matter to ask for the Tánaiste's support and intervention in respect of it. The matter pertains to the Finance Bill 2014 and was brought to my attention subsequent to that Bill's passage through this Chamber. The Bill is currently before the Seanad and my constituency colleague, Senator Reilly, will address the matter in her contribution to today's debate on Second Stage. We will seek to amend the Bill because the matter is of considerable concern even though it escaped our collective attention in its passage thus far.

I refer to section 74 of the Bill, which deals with capital acquisitions tax. We support the principle of encouraging active farming and active farmers. However, the provision in this section would mean that from 1 January 2015 - which is just over three weeks away - we will see a situation whereby, on the demise of the parents who actively farm a particular holding or if the holding is gifted, the inheritor or acquirer would have to be in a position to continue actively farming the holding for a period of six years or to lease it out for a period of not less than six years. This is absolutely sound but the area that has been missed in our collective address thus far is the impact on members of the diaspora.

I speak based on first-hand engagement with families in my constituency, which is made up of small to medium holdings. They are not members of the rancher class by any means. There is real concern for the position of intended inheritors who plan to take over the farming enterprise but are forced to find work in the United State, Australia or New Zealand because there are no employment opportunities at home. The requirement is that 50% of the farmer's time should be spent actively working on the farm. The option of 50% off-farm work has not been available to countless thousands of young people from a traditional farming background for the past decade, in particular. The provision in the Bill as it stands means that many of these people will not be able to take up active farming immediately. If they were to opt for the lease approach, the Bill requires them to lease it out for a period of not less than six years. Certainly in the cases of which I have experience, it was always the intention of the individuals concerned to return in a couple of years' time. There is no interchangeability between the lease requirement and active participation in farming. These individuals are part of the diaspora because of the economic circumstances in which we found ourselves and, as a result, they were left out of consideration. The consequences of this will be dire. They are facing the introduction of a tax rate of 33% on their inheritance in just over three weeks' time. I ask the Tánaiste to intervene with the Minister for Finance. We will submit amendments but there will be greater certainty if the Government is willing to offer its support.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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One of the points of focus in the Finance Bill is to provide better arrangements for the transfer of land from older farmers who are retiring to younger farmers and people who want to go into farming. If the Deputy is suggesting that a difficulty has been identified in regard to the arrangements that the Minister for Finance proposes in the legislation, the discussion in the Seanad will provide an opportunity to tease out all of the issues.

I am not totally familiar with the section of the Bill, but there have been questions about a number of issues relating to transfers and inheritance under the Finance Bill. If a further briefing is required from officials in the Revenue Commissioners and the Department of Finance on the operation of the clauses in section 74, that can be provided. Clearly, the Deputy has questions about how the section would operate in practice.

The intention of the legislation is to make provision for the easier transfer of land to young farmers. The reason time limits are provided for in respect of such transfers is that obviously when receiving inheritances or passing over inheritances or businesses to the next generation or to relatives, and doing so with a substantial tax mitigation, the Revenue Commissioners must be satisfied that it is in respect of bona fide participation in farming. I take the Deputy's point that somebody who might be out of the country for one or three years, having emigrated to get employment, and who wishes to return and perhaps succeed to a family farm or take over a farm holding might not satisfy some of the tests. I strongly suggest that the matter be taken up, first, with the Revenue Commissioners to explore some of the cases about which the Deputy has concerns and, second, in the context of the discussion on the Bill. I will also raise the matter with the Minister, Deputy Noonan.

12:20 pm

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I am grateful that the Tánaiste is willing to raise it with the Minister, Deputy Noonan. The critical point is that there is no difference in our collective intent of seeking to ensure that agriculture and productive land are in the hands of young active farmers. However, there has been a distinctive situation in the past decade, particularly with regard to smaller holdings in rural Ireland. It might not always be sons - there might be daughters involved - but in the cases I know of it is a male progeny who has been displaced, because there was no other activity available for employment within the area to sustain that extra person in the smallholding concerned and they were forced to emigrate. If a sudden death occurs and there is a consequential inheritance, it is not that simple for somebody to extract themselves immediately from whatever circumstances they might be in, be it business or commercial activity or employment. That applies to the people I know.

I agree that there must be timeframes. We are suggesting a further timeframe in this context: that there be a period of grace for people in the circumstances I described. It could be three years, but this can be determined. I merely suggest that it be considered. It would be tragic if, due to the economic reality we have experienced and the fact that these people have been forced to emigrate, they were further penalised as a result of their inability to relocate here immediately. That is what will happen from 1 January next if the Bill is passed as it is currently drafted. I again ask that a period of grace be provided.

I also ask for interchangeability between the six years of active farming and the six years of leasing. The Bill refers to somebody who leases the agricultural property for not less than six years. They might already have had the intention of returning, and with the demise of their parent or parents would wish to return home much sooner, but the Bill as it is drafted locks them into that period, which would be penal in the circumstances. The support of the Tánaiste and the Minister would be appreciated.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Again, I thank the Deputy for raising the issue, because it is very important for families in rural Ireland and for children or others who are abroad at present. It is our hope that many people who emigrated over a number of years will begin to return home. Indeed, it is already happening and has become quite marked. Many of the recruitment firms are stepping up their recruitment over the Christmas period because so many young people will be returning and, hopefully, many of them will be able either to stay or to make plans to return for employment that has become available.

The legislation has been widely welcomed by farming organisations. Its intent is to facilitate transfers from older people to young active farmers who wish to commit to farming. If the Deputy could give a few examples, we could ask the Revenue Commissioners to examine the scenarios which are causing the Deputy concern and see if it is possible to provide either regulations or administration to take these cases into account.

Obviously, it is important that the Finance Bill be passed before the end of this Oireachtas term. There are universal social charge, USC, and tax reductions due to take effect from 1 January next and we are anxious that people have the benefit of those. However, the Deputy has raised an important issue. I will raise it with the Minister, Deputy Noonan, but it would be helpful if the Deputy could compile two or three examples of the scenarios he has in mind. I am familiar with cases such as the Deputy describes, but with tax law one must always be careful of the law of unintended consequences. I am sure the Minister, Deputy Noonan, will be happy to examine it, but it would be helpful if the Deputy would set out the relevant scenarios.

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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It appears that neither Shannon Airport Authority nor the Government knows, or keeps proper records on, what US military aircraft land at Shannon. On four occasions lately, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade denied on the Dáil record that an aircraft had landed, although we knew it had. Then he discovered we had proof. The Minister told the Dáil last Tuesday:

Arising from new information which has been brought to my attention, I would like to correct the record of the House in respect of an error in responses to four parliamentary questions from Deputy Clare Daly starting on 7 October 2014 and finishing with Question No. 110 on 20 November 2014.

I replied to the questions on the basis of the information provided by Shannon Airport Authority.
How can it be acceptable that the Minister is relying on a civil authority for information regarding military traffic, given that the policy provides that only the Minister for Justice and Equality can give permission for military aeroplanes to land? If this aeroplane had permission to land, why did the Department not have a record of it? Clearly, it did not have a record. Now that the Minister has admitted the aeroplane was there, does the Government have any proof that the aeroplane was not involved in any military operation or exercise, in view of the fact that it was operated by a US Marine Corps Reserve squadron called the Rangers, which has done a great deal of work in Libya and Iraq?

Last year, a C-130 Hercules landed at Shannon with a weapon on board. We were told this was an administrative error and that it had no permit to land. The policy is inconsistent. In 2003, Judge Kearns ruled in the case of Horganv.Ireland in the High Court that it was illegal and a breach of international laws on neutrality for the Government to give approval for the movement of troops or munitions on their way to a war front.

How, in God's name, can we give permits to the civilian aircraft that we admit are carrying weapons with them when we know bloody well they are going to a war front? Does the Government have records of where the planes go? If not, how can we know whether they are going to a war front? Unless we have inspections and monitoring, how can we know we are not complicit in war crimes in the Middle East, where the US army has illegally occupied sovereign states and committed umpteen war crimes? How can we know what is on the aircraft when sometimes we do not even know they are there?

12:30 pm

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I understand there was some discussion on the matter in one of the committees yesterday. On the Minister's correcting the record about four parliamentary questions the Deputy referenced, it is very welcome that the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Charles Flanagan, would provide additional information if it becomes available. It is fair to the Deputy who asked the questions to correct the record if additional information comes in. It is to the credit of the Minister and shows how seriously the Departments of Foreign Affairs and Trade and Defence take our obligations as a neutral country regarding military traffic through or into Irish airspace.

Photo of John HalliganJohn Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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He had no choice.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I do not have the details regarding the Deputy's questions on the civil authority at Shannon. I would be happy to raise them with the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade and return to the Deputy. The Minister's updating or correcting the record if the Civil Aviation Authority has corrected or updated information is a good thing.

Photo of Aodhán Ó RíordáinAodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin North Central, Labour)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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While we are glad he corrected the record, it is a pity he denied it four times. It is proof that the Government did not know and that control of the military aircraft in Shannon has been outsourced to a civil authority, which is scary, given the importance the Government says it attaches to it. When the Labour Party was in opposition, it was adamant that aircraft should be inspected.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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That is right.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Hear, hear.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Former Deputy Michael D. Higgins and the former Tánaiste, Deputy Eamon Gilmore insisted that aircraft be searched and that unless they were, we could not know what was on them.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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That was then.

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Why has the Labour Party changed its position? Why can we now take the word of the Americans, who tell us everything is grand? They told Angela Merkel they were not tapping her phone. We could not believe the time of day from these people. If we want to know what is on the aircraft, we have to inspect them. If the Government wants to know whether they are going to a war front, it must monitor their movement.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Government should send Deputy Wallace to inspect them.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The Government should send Ray Burke to inspect them.

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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The Government is not protecting the Irish people's desire for peace and human rights. We are complicit in atrocious behaviour on the part of the US military in the Middle East, which has descended into anarchy thanks to their war efforts.

Photo of John HalliganJohn Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Will the Tánaiste, as leader of the Labour Party, consider revisiting her party's position on it and demanding we begin inspecting these aircraft?

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There is a job for Deputy Finian McGrath.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I was at a protest with the Minister, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, in Limerick.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The example of Deputy Mary Lou McDonald has gone to Deputy Finian McGrath's head.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Definitely. The Tánaiste got it right this time.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Christmas is coming. Deputy Wallace has raised a serious issue. I am not aware if there is a person or party in the House who disagrees with a very strong, active policy of neutrality on the part of Ireland and the Government. This is, and always has been, the Labour Party's policy. The arrangements under which permission is granted for any country's military aircraft to land at Irish airports are governed by very strict conditions which stipulate that the aircraft must be unarmed, carry no arms, ammunition or explosives and must not engage in intelligence gathering. The conditions also stipulate that the flights in question must not form part of military exercises and operations. The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade considers requests to permit the landing of military aircraft, including those that can operate as refuelling aircraft, on the basis of these very strict conditions. Permission is not granted for the conduct of military operations in Irish air space. This is Ireland's policy and it is strictly enforced. The Deputy raised some questions about the operation of the Civil Aviation Authority in Shannon. Although I do not have the answers to hand, I will take up the matter with the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade and seek responses from him. I know the Deputy has put down many questions to the Minister on these issues. Irish neutrality has been and remains a core part of Irish foreign policy.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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No, it is not. Fine Gail is not happy with it.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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My party is absolutely committed to it.