Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)
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7. To ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs the reason for the delay in the establishment of a commission of investigation into the mother and baby homes; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [43924/14]

Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)
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I am aware that since the question was submitted there has been some movement on this issue, and the Minister met the coalition of mother and baby homes survivors last week. They felt he understood the points they made on the urgency of establishing this commission of inquiry into the homes and the need for the process to be all-inclusive. Will the Minister update the House in this regard?

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for her question. The Government has undertaken to establish a statutory commission of investigation into matters relating to mother and baby homes in accordance with the motion passed by this House on 11 June. Considerable progress has been achieved since this date, including the publication of the interdepartmental group’s report, the announcement that Judge Yvonne Murphy will chair the commission and an inclusive consultation process with stakeholders.

The establishment of any statutory investigation is a significant undertaking. The scale and sensitivity of the specific concerns relating to mother and baby homes, as evident from the interdepartmental report and submissions received from interested parties, simply demands that I take the necessary time for detailed consideration of these complex matters. The Deputy mentioned earlier that I am the third Minister at the Department since its establishment at the beginning of this Government's term of office. I felt it important that I met all of the groups.

Although the necessity of providing the commission with appropriate terms of reference may be generally accepted, the task of achieving the required precision should not be underestimated. Our collective desire to finalise these arrangements quickly must be balanced against the clear obligation to the mothers and children who were in these institutions to get this process right from the start. Due care and attention at this formative stage should not be interpreted as anything else.

I am confident that we are now approaching the conclusion of this deliberative process. My priority remains the establishment of a commission that can deliver on public expectations in a realistic manner by providing a full account of what happened in these homes. Following discussions with colleagues across Government, the work of developing the terms of reference is now well advanced. In addition, my Department is working with Judge Murphy to advance the operational arrangements and determine the resources required to support the commission’s work, because we are required to be able to cost this when we submit it to Government.

In parallel with this work I am consulting a number of key stakeholders to update them on the emerging issues and seek their further views. As I advised the joint Oireachtas committee last week, at least some of the issues being raised extend beyond the central focus on mother and baby homes as debated in the House. However, I am confident that this inclusive approach will greatly assist the establishment of an effective inquiry which has the support of those most centrally involved.

Following the finalisation of the terms of reference in the coming weeks, it is my intention to bring the matter to Government as soon as possible thereafter.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)
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I hope the terms of reference will be debated here also. It is a big project and must be done right, but there must also be a certain urgency in this regard. There is a certain irony that while the Minister was meeting the survivors last week and the Taoiseach was here stating that all allegations of sexual abuse should be thoroughly investigated, some of the victims of such practices in some of the institutions are being excluded from this scheme. I again stress that this must be survivor-centred. All former residents of all institutions must be included.

No one can be left behind. The vast majority of people were in nine mother-and-baby homes but the small minority who were outside these cannot be excluded. Again, I emphasise that areas like Westbank must be included. I imagine the Minister is aware that most of the mother-and-baby homes were certified for more children than mothers. Most of them had 50 or 100 extra children. They were in effect orphanages. The fact that some of the orphanages were not geographically linked to the mother-and-baby home and were in separate areas like Westbank or St. Philomena's Home does not mean they were not part of the same process or feeding, as part of which women went from mother-and-baby homes to county homes to orphanages to holding centres and so on. They must be included in the process.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy, we are over time. I will let you back in again.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is quite right: this is urgent and yet it is a major undertaking. If we get the terms of reference wrong at the outset we will be unable to answer the questions that people want answered. If we end up with a commission that takes ten years to report, it would not be in anyone's interests. We must define the terms of reference in a manner that allows the commission to do its work, get the answers that people want and do so in a timely and cost-effective way. No one in this House wants to see vast sums of money which should be going to people who have suffered being spent on tribunals and the legal profession, with no disrespect to that profession.

I wish to make it clear that I want to be as inclusive as possible in respect of the issues Deputy Daly has raised. The challenge facing me is to find a methodology of doing so in a timely way. Some of the people involved in the home that Deputy Daly referred to are now in their 70s. Certainly, it does not serve them to allow this to go on for ten years or more.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)
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I imagine the Minister will have the full support of the House for an all-inclusive approach. I hope the recognition that in effect a network existed whereby people went from homes into these institutions is taken into account, because we cannot cherry-pick victims. I am mindful of that many of the survivors have prepared a complaint for the United Nations Committee Against Torture. As the Minister said, the age profile is not improving. Their requests should be acceded to as smoothly as possible. Can the Minister indicate whether we will see it this side of the Dáil term? Can we expect to get the terms of reference? The Minister has indicated to survivors that it might take three years. When are we likely to see it being kicked-off?

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I wish to make a supportive intervention following what Deputy Daly has already recorded. It is not only the Westbank orphanage but the Church of Ireland Magdalen home in Dublin as well. I strongly appeal to the Minister not to exclude any of those Protestant interests who have been campaigning for full inclusivity which, as the Minister is aware, I have argued for consistently.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputies. Again, I confirm that of course there will be a debate in the House on the terms of reference. Equally, I am not in a position to say on the floor of the Dáil today what will be included or excluded because the work is not complete. However, I emphasise that we are examining means and ways, while staying within the spirit and the letter of the motion the Dáil passed last year. At the same time we are trying to find mechanisms and ways to include all those who believe they should be included as well as finding a mechanism to allow the commission to do its work in a timely fashion. The Deputy referred to a period of 36 months. Certainly our goal is that it would report within that period or sooner, if possible, although it is difficult to see how it could do so given the complexities around this and the vast array of institutions involved.