Dáil debates

Tuesday, 4 November 2014

Ceisteanna - Questions (Resumed)

Constitutional Convention Recommendations

4:55 pm

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

5. To ask the Taoiseach the referenda scheduled for the period ahead. [35179/14]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

6. To ask the Taoiseach the position on the implementation of the recommendations of the Constitutional Convention; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [35202/14]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

7. To ask the Taoiseach the position on the Constitutional Convention's recommendations; the actions that will be taken; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [35660/14]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

8. To ask the Taoiseach the referenda he plans to hold before the end of his term in government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39816/14]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

9. To ask the Taoiseach the position on implementation of the recommendations of the Constitutional Convention. [39822/14]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

10. To ask the Taoiseach the position on the Constitutional Convention's recommendations; the actions the Government will take; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [41688/14]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

11. To ask the Taoiseach the referenda his Government plans to hold before the end of the current term of the Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [41689/14]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I propose to take Questions Nos. 5 to 11, inclusive, together.

The Government has implemented a programme of constitutional reform. There have been six referendums held since we took office, namely, on investigative powers for Oireachtas committees; judges' remuneration; the fiscal stability treaty; children; abolition of the Seanad; and the establishment of the Court of Appeal. Of these, five arose directly from commitments in the programme for Government. It also made a commitment to the establishment of the Constitutional Convention to examine a wide range of other constitutional issues.

Following agreement with the Opposition representatives, the convention was duly established in 2012. It has been a very valuable innovation in our democracy. I commend the members, the chair and the staff involved for their significant contribution. The Government has responded in the Dáil in detail to four of the reports of the convention as follows: to the first report on the voting age and presidential term on 18 July 2013; to the second report on the role of women and women in politics on 10 October 2013; to the third report on same sex marriage on 17 December 2013; and to the sixth report on blasphemy on 2 October 2014.

In response to recommendations made in the first three reports of the convention, we have announced that we will bring forward proposals for referendums on marriage equality, reducing the voting age to 16 years and reducing the eligible age for candidacy for presidential elections to 21. In response to these reports the Government also decided to refer to the relevant Oireachtas committee the question of a constitutional amendment to give citizens a say in the nomination process for presidential candidates. This has been done.

The Government also undertook to consider making Article 41.2 of the Constitution on the role of women gender neutral and including in it other carers within and beyond the home. It undertook to consider amending the Constitution to include the principle of gender equality, as well as the use of gender inclusive language in the Constitution. That work is under way in the Department of Justice and Equality.

A major outcome of the fourth report was that there should not be a change to the electoral system. It recommended the establishment of an electoral commission. The Government announced that it had accepted that recommendation and the preparatory work has commenced in the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government.

There are a number of other recommendations that do not require a referendum. I should, of course, add that the Government has implemented a range of reforms to the Dáil, including longer sitting times, better opportunities for Members to raise topical issues, changes to committees, the introduction of pre-legislative scrutiny of Bills and the establishment of a proper framework for parliamentary inquiries.

In response to the sixth report of the convention, the Government announced that it would bring forward proposals for a referendum on the removal from the Constitution of the offence of blasphemy. The Government is continuing to work on its response to the remaining convention reports, namely, the fifth report on giving citizens resident outside the State the right to vote in presidential elections, the seventh report on Dáil reform, the eighth report on economic, social and cultural rights and the ninth report which contains the conclusions and final recommendations of the convention.

The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government is considering the recommendations on votes for citizens outside the State in co-operation with the newly appointed Minister of State with responsibility for Diaspora affairs.

Work is also under way on the seventh, eighth and ninth reports. These contain a number of recommendations that require consideration throughout a number of Departments. I anticipate the Government will consider all of these remaining reports within the next month and that we will have Dáil debates on each of them before the end of this session. The Government Whip will consult Opposition Members on the timing of these debates, once the Government response is ready for consideration in the Dáil.

In regard to referendums, the Government also intends to hold a referendum on the unified patent court. This follows on an international agreement which will assist business and job creation in Ireland by facilitating cost effective and uniform patent protection throughout the 25 EU member states through a single patent court, with a local division here in Ireland. The Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation is making the necessary preparations for that referendum.

Once all of the remaining reports of the Constitutional Convention have been considered, the Government will make its decision on the timing and number of referendums to be held in 2015.

5:05 pm

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I call Deputy Higgins. As we have only seven minutes left, I suggest we allow one and a half minutes to each Deputy contributing.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I will be brief, as I was at the outset. The offering of my colleague here should also be taken.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We will try to do the best we can, but the clock is against us.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In the past few days, some members of Government parties have been speaking about a referendum to keep Irish Water resources in public ownership. What is the Taoiseach's attitude to that? While I am not opposed to it, is the Taoiseach as amazed as I am at the audacity and sheer neck of some of these people, who are responsible for making water a market commodity, therefore, opening it up to privatisation, and who are now trying to pose as champions of keeping water public by looking for a referendum? These people are the hapless Green Party members, the politically condemned in the Labour Party and the politically threatened in Fine Gael. The Fine Gael mayor of Drogheda has gone native in the past 48 hours.

Will the Taoiseach agree that the clearest protection to ensure our water resources remain in public hands is not to turn it into a commodity and, therefore, to abolish these hated water charges? Let me save him much time and trouble by telling him that if he persists in this, he will go down to perdition on the issue. He will not win. These charges will be abolished and the Taoiseach should listen to the people in that regard.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I counted approximately five referendum proposals in the Taoiseach's comments. He promised an inclusive approach to these issues, but what has happened is that he has simply announced that the Government will decide what will happen and when it will happen. The Dáil will have no role other than to vote on what the Government decides and puts before it. That is a long way short of the democratic revolution that was promised.

Does the Taoiseach have a schedule for the proposed referendums and for when they will happen? As he knows, significant work must be done in advance. For example, the legislation must be published and the electoral commission must be established. We know from previous debacles and the children's referendum, which is still in the courts, that the referendum must be conducted properly and people must be given proper information. When people are denied a proper debate, they get angry. The Taoiseach read out the list of referendums we have had so far and, as he said, the Government got a wallop on some of them, not least because of the proposal in one of them but also because of the manner in which they were handled.

It seems the Taoiseach is saying we will have a referendum on a voting age of 16, marriage equality, blasphemy and the age at which a person can be elected to the presidency. He was not quite clear in terms of proposals pertaining to women in the Constitution and whether we will have a referendum in that regard. He mentioned a unified patent court and said we would have a referendum on that issue.

I have looked to see what scheduled legislation has been published, but not even one Bill is promised before the end of this year on any of these issues. We are running against the clock on this, in terms of the lifetime of the Government and the capacity to have these referendums. Is it proposed to have them all on the same day? I urge the Taoiseach to ensure the referendum on marriage equality is kept separate in order that people can debate the issues properly, without being clouded by other referendums. The referendums deserve careful consideration and I ask the Taoiseach to share his thoughts on the issues with the House. We may not have the time for that now, but will he share his thoughts in terms of the timing and scheduling of the referendums?

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In the past few days, some Government spokespeople have indicated the possibility of a referendum on the right to water. Given that the Constitutional Convention supported by 85% the idea that economic, social and cultural rights should be enshrined in the Constitution and, more significantly, given from 150,000 to 200,000 people came out on the streets at the weekend under the broad banner of the right to water, does the Taoiseach accept that access to water is a human right? We do not need a referendum to vindicate that right. All the Taoiseach needs to do to ensure it is a human right is to abolish water charges and ensure that all citizens have access to water, regardless of whether they have the money to pay charges for it. Does the Taoiseach believe access to water is a human right? If so, is it not encroaching on and subverting that right to have any sort of user charges?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Thank you.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Can I ask a brief question?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Please conclude. We have only one minute 50 seconds left and Deputy Gerry Adams had three questions.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On the issue of the right to housing and given the housing crisis, is the Taoiseach thinking of responding to the Constitutional Convention's call for these sorts of rights to be enshrined in the Constitution?

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The citizen delegates who attended the Constitutional Convention did their work, as did the chair and staff. I attended a number of the meetings and noted that citizens who had no previous political experience were well prepared and were uplifted by the experience. They played their part, but the Government has not played its part.

The Taoiseach said there were five reports from the Constitutional Convention and that there would be Dáil debates on all of the outstanding reports in this session. He said the same in July and when I raised this matter previous to that. I have formed the view now that this delay is due to nothing other than that some of the issues coming forward, such as the right to housing, the reduction of the voting age, social and economic rights and voting rights for the diaspora, are issues the Taoiseach is against and that this is why they have not been brought forward. There has been no other satisfactory explanation for the delay given by the Taoiseach on the number of occasions I have raised these issues. We will see whether these issues come forward in this session, but will the Taoiseach explain why there are five outstanding reports?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Ruth Coppinger has ten seconds.

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Taoiseach raised the question of gender equality. I am the only woman present in the Chamber, but I have only ten seconds.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy did not submit a question in this grouping. I am obliging her by allowing her put a supplementary question.

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Taoiseach listed a significant number of issues on which there will be referendums, including, laughably, gender equality. However, the one issue he did not mention was a repeal of the eighth amendment. How can we have gender equality when a woman is equated to a foetus? Ireland is the only country in Europe where this happens. Do women's lives matter? Does their health matter? Should women be able to make their own decisions over their lives and bodies?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are over time.

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Some 56% of people believe the eighth amendment should be repealed in the lifetime of the Government. The Taoiseach is bringing people out to vote on a range of important issues, but none of these issues is more important than the issue of women's lives.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Thank you.

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We have seen victims of the eighth amendment this year, but when is the Taoiseach going to let people concentrate on a 31 year old amendment?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I ask the Deputy not to abuse the situation please. We are over time. I call on the Taoiseach to reply.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is not proposed to hold a referendum in respect of a right to water being enshrined in the Constitution. We live in a democracy and as far as I understand, no party or individual in the House favours privatisation of our water system. Any party that decides it does favour privatisation can put in its manifesto that it stands for this.

The Fine Gael Party does not stand for it; the Labour Party does not stand for it; the Fianna Fáil Party does not stand for it; the Sinn Féin Party does not stand for it and I understand, given the range of views among the Technical Group and Independents, that they do not stand for it either. Therefore, it is not going to arise that there will be any question of privatisation of the water system in Ireland.

What I said was that when the Government had considered the reports and decided whether there should be a referendum on each of them, we would come back and discuss them at that stage. The reason there are so many reports outstanding is that there is quite a range of complicated work to be done in different Departments arising from the considerations that the delegates to the Constitutional Convention actually made. I have outlined the ones we have announced - that is, propositions for referendums on marriage equality, on reducing the voting age to 16, on reducing the eligible age for candidates in presidential elections from 21, and on the unified patent court. Most of these are from the people themselves in that the requests have come through the Constitutional Convention. The intention would be to hold a number of referendums on the one day, as I do not believe we can have a series of referendums, one after the other, each month. I take Deputy Micheál Martin's point about the importance of the marriage equality referendum. I hope to be able to stand over the discussions on the remaining reports in this session and to bring forward the legislation to give effect to the referendums that the Government will actually decide to hold, some of which are mentioned here, and deal with it in that way.

It is a fact that people are entitled to water and, in a democracy, where that water is supplied through an infrastructure provided by the State or, in previous times, by the local authorities, they are entitled to look for a contribution in respect of the cost of provision of that water which is fair and affordable.

5:15 pm

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Even if they cannot pay?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

A total of €2.5 billion was announced in the recent budget for social housing, and the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Alan Kelly, is anxious to get this moving. In fact, we discussed this at a Cabinet sub-committee yesterday. Significant progress has now been made on voids here in Dublin. These are places that are boarded up but are well capable of being reconstructed and regenerated as good-quality housing.

I would say to Deputy Ruth Coppinger that it is not intended to repeal the 1983 amendment in the lifetime of the Government.

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Why not?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What we did after 20 years of waiting was to address the issue in legislation, as was required and determined by the Supreme Court in its interpretation of the Constitution.

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It failed over the summer.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That meant giving effect to legislation which applied where the life of the mother was threatened, as distinct from the health of the mother.

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It has failed.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It filled a long-standing void whereby no Government attempted to deal with the interpretation of the Supreme Court in respect of what the people put into the Constitution.

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Four thousand women a year will still go.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have said before that the question the Deputy raises will not be dealt with in the lifetime of the Government and is one for consideration by the next Government.

Written Answers follow Adjournment.