Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The plot in relation to Irish Water thickens every day. It is like a cure searching for a remedy. Phil Hogan said that one normally has to crack a few eggs to make an omelette. In the case of the Irish Water entity that was put in place by this Government, omelettes are being made before any eggs are cracked. This day last week, the Tánaiste was asked specific questions about the bonus scheme in Irish Water. She did not answer the question at all. The Taoiseach informed the House on 7 October last that there would be no bonus scheme or payments in Irish Water. We are led to believe that a report to the Government in 2012 specifically outlined the schemes pertaining to Bord Gáis and, subsequently, to Irish Water. On Monday, the Ministers, Deputies Jan O'Sullivan and Alan Kelly, said the bonus scheme will be dealt with when the new board is appointed. We were told on Tuesday that the Minister, Deputy Kelly, would meet the chief executive officer and tell him a few home truths. Despite those home truths, Mr. Tierney arrived out of a meeting yesterday and said his staff are doing a fantastic job and deserve their bonuses and the bonus scheme within Irish Water. The Taoiseach informed the House at another point on Tuesday that he does not believe anyone who underperforms should be given a bonus or performance pay in the first place. Does the Tánaiste agree that the staff in Irish Water are doing a fantastic job, considering their very performance is determined by a policy direction of the Government? Does she think they are entitled to or should receive bonuses?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The development of Irish Water and the employment of staff in Irish Water is akin for our times to the establishment of the ESB shortly after the foundation of the State.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is an insult.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It was probably pretty unpopular with people like the Deputy at that time.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It was not. It was a very popular project.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Such people subsequently became great defenders of it.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am not that old.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

When Deputy Cowen's party leader, Deputy Martin, was inquiring about the bonuses during last week's discussion, he asked how much it would cost to go back to the 34 separate local authority water structures and to take the current Irish Water structure back onto the balance sheet. The taxpayers and citizens of this country want an efficient and effective water system. The cost of doing what Fianna Fáil appears to want to do is very significant. It would initially cost €600 million to take it onto the balance sheet, as Fianna Fáil seems to be suggesting. I know that, in reality, it is holding a range of options. The revenues raised would incur a cost of a further €300 million. The commitment in terms of the capital investment - Deputies on all sides of the House will agree that this is vital - would cost another €1.7 billion over a three-year period. I want the message to be sent to taxpayers that the cost of what Fianna Fáil is proposing with regard to Irish Water would place a burden of €2.5 billion back onto the shoulders of those who ultimately pay taxes. I am saying that Fianna Fáil has not costed its options at all.

There has been an area that is disappointing in relation to Irish Water. I understand the frustrations and concerns of people, as highlighted by Deputy Cowen and other members of his party during this week's Private Members' debate. I think the timeline for Irish Water was certainly too ambitious. It is an undertaking as big as the ESB for our times. It involves bringing together 34 separate authorities. Most important, the investment about which I have just spoken will ensure that by the new year, the people of Roscommon will be able to have a glass of water from their taps.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That would want to happen.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is not to be sneezed at. As Deputy Cowen said, the Taoiseach and others are on the record on the issue of how the staff are paid. This matter will be dealt with by the board of Ervia. I do not anticipate any bonus payments in the context of the set-up period. A bonus is a reward for work that is done. We are very much in the set-up period. In any event, it is a structured payment in relation to salaries which actually forgoes increments. As the Deputy knows, and he has seen the documentation, which is in the public domain, the scheme was designed to save money.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Hear, hear.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Tánaiste for her response. Unfortunately, she did not answer the question I asked. I did not ask her to reassure the House, or to give any further detail about the cost associated with putting this bonus-driven, gold-plated super quango in place. Some €700 million has been spent to date without a pipe in the ground being fixed anywhere in the country. I asked the Tánaiste to say what she thinks of the bonus system in Irish Water today. Having gone round the houses, she eventually said she does not think any such payments should be made during the set-up period. What does she think?

I will ask her directly again. Does she agree with them, or does she not? Does she agree with them during the set-up? Does she agree with them when Irish Water has been set up and is in place, robbing Peter? It is a very simple fact the Tánaiste is going to have to answer. I would like her to be honest and to answer the question directly. Will the bonus scheme go ahead or will the Government succumb to the pressure that I heard from Labour Party and Fine Gael backbenchers when we debated the Fianna Fáil motion over the past hour? They are blaming the Tánaiste and her colleagues in government for allowing this and putting this in place. That is what they did, whether they like it or not. Does the Tánaiste agree with what they did? Does she agree with it into the future? Will she do something about it? If she does not intend to do so, she should be clear about it. The backbenchers need to know. If that is what they think, they can withdraw their support for the Tánaiste and her Government.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Paddy needs to know.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The audacity of Fianna Fáil, in forgetting that it agreed at the time-----

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste is taking out the violin.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Freagair an cheist.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputies opposite have probably wiped it from their memories, and I can understand why.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That carry-on won one election, but it will not win another one.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

When the troika came into Ireland, the guys opposite - they are all guys - decided to sign off-----

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Sexist.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

They cannot do anything about that.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I see Sinn Féin is all guys today as well. I am glad to see Deputies Maureen O'Sullivan and Joan Collins are here.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The guys and the gals are getting bonuses.

Paudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy McDonald has gone AWOL.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

When the guys signed off on it, they agreed with the troika there would be a comprehensive change in relation to water in Ireland in line with every other European country. They agreed a flat rate charging arrangement, or something like that, which came out at €400 per household.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is a lazy answer, as usual.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

All of Fianna Fáil's previous spokespersons agreed that was what happened.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

You guys and you gals put this in place.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Cowen changed his party's mind on the matter.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This Government agreed the bonuses.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If we were to do what Fianna Fáil is now proposing in relation to Irish Water, which is to take the company out and put it back to taxpayers-----

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Answer the question.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----we would be talking about a cost of €2.5 billion.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What about the bonuses agreed by this Government?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Cowen made a secondary point-----

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The taxpayers are paying for the bonuses.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am just saying-----

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Does the Tánaiste agree with bonuses, or does she not?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Let me give you an analogy-----

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We want a "Yes" or "No" answer.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I want an answer, rather than an analogy.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The tax package in the budget and the spending package are each worth €500 million.

The Deputy is casually, without thinking, telling the taxpayers that here is another debt costing €2.5 billion per annum.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes or no, Tánaiste?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The bonuses will be dealt with by the board of Ervia.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Irish Water is dead. We just have to wait for the funeral.

Noel Coonan (Tipperary North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Quieten down, Mattie. Back in your box.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

You voted for it.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do not anticipate any bonus payment, any enhancement payment or whatever other kind of management speak title is used for the payments being paid-----

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Some €5.16 million will be paid next year. That figure comes from a response to one of our parliamentary questions.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----at all until such time as the company is operational.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am sorry, but we are over time.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is operational now.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What I do know at the moment is that people in Roscommon-----

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Government is charging for it as we speak.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----will have drinking water by the new year. I certainly know in Dublin that there is a huge amount of very good work being done by Irish Water to upgrade the facilities in terms of clean water. We need that for people, tourism and business.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Hear, hear.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am not saying we do not need it. Is the Tánaiste saying that she agrees with bonuses?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I call Deputy Ó Snodaigh.

Robert Dowds (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Where is Mary Lou?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Sorry. I have called Deputy Ó Snodaigh.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yesterday, I invited carers and their representative groups to visit Leinster House to explain to Deputies and Senators from all political parties how vital the respite care grant was to families affected by disability. The DCA Warriors, the Special Needs Parents Association and Aoibheann's Pink Tie, all of which are voluntary groups that do outstanding work, attended. Alongside the Carers Association and Inclusion Ireland, they gave powerful, heart-wrenching accounts of the hardships caused by the Government's 19% cut to the grant in budget 2013. That cut of €325 has meant that entire households are going without heating, children are going without therapies and special equipment, families are going deeper into debt and basic items such as shoes and schoolbags cannot be afforded. The cut extinguished any meaningful chance of respite for those families. It also had a demoralising effect on this already fragile group. As one carer put it, a savage cut of such a disproportionate size in respect of families with special needs was degrading and made many feel worthless.

Budget 2015 was supposed to herald the end of austerity, but the family carers have been provided with no relief. Will the Tánaiste please reflect on what I am telling her and on the testimony given by carers in the AV room yesterday and use the upcoming Social Welfare Bill to restore the €325 to the respite care grant? The wider Irish public wants the Government to give carers some relief. A petition issued during the week received 2,000 signatures within 24 hours and a lot more since. I urge the Tánaiste to take the time to read the testimony that is attached to some of those signatures. It would be appropriate of her to do so while reflecting on the Bill in the coming weeks.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I acknowledge all of the work that carers do in Irish society. That is why the Government prioritises a range of supports for carers that are probably among the most extensive in Europe.

The number of people in receipt of the respite carer's allowance has increased significantly during this Government's time. The Deputy knows this, as we have often debated it. The number of families and children qualifying for the domiciliary care allowance has increased significantly. As well as getting the domiciliary care allowance of nearly €300 per month, many of those families also qualify - properly - for the carer's allowance for all of the work they do for their children with physical or intellectual special needs.

The number of grants has increased since a couple of years ago when we entered office, when under 80,000 people were getting the grant. There are now almost 90,000 people getting the respite care grant. The actual expenditure and number of people qualifying have expanded significantly.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We have an ageing population.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes, absolutely.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

More people are being cared for at home.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Please ignore the side comments.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is why every year in social welfare we have been able to provide approximately an extra €200 million per year in each budget for all of those extra older people, carers and people getting the domiciliary care allowance in respect of their children. That is true; Deputy Troy is absolutely correct. The cost is in excess of €200 million per year.

We have difficult choices to make. When I met, as I do several times per year, representatives of carers' organisations, they emphasised maintaining the weekly rate of the full carer's allowance, which is significant. When we had to make savings in the context of the country's difficulties and we were spending significantly more in that area in total because of the extra numbers, I made a difficult choice. I know it was difficult for a lot of carers, but they and their organisations emphasised to me the primacy of maintaining the weekly rate. I am happy to say that, as Deputy Ó Snodaigh will be aware and as he surely told the people who came to his meeting, the carers and families who receive the domiciliary care allowance and the people with disabilities or older people for whom carers care will all receive small, but significant and important improvements for them and their families in the budget. First, in the first half of December, we will be paying them the Christmas bonus. For an individual carer, this will be somewhere around €50 or €60. If other people in the family are on social welfare and, as the Deputy has suggested, the carer has a number of children-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Two and a half bags of coal.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----in addition to those for whom he or she cares, the figure will be well over €100 up to €200. I can give Deputy Ó Snodaigh the details if he gives me the details of the families concerned.

Second, if a carer is looking after a disabled person and is living on his or her own - many are and do fabulous work - the living alone allowance for that person will increase to €9 per week.

Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

By €1.30.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That has been widely welcomed by disability organisations. Regarding the children the Deputy mentioned, in January child benefit will increase by €5 per child. What the Deputy is suggesting in a way is to-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am sorry, but we have gone way over time.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----increase carer's allowance at a cost. We have a limited budget with which to make improvements and we chose to concentrate on carers as well as older people and those living alone. As soon as we can-----

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Government chose tax cuts for the wealthy and cut the respite grant.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----and resources allow, of course we will look at it. We look at it all of the time.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste stated that the number of carers and those in receipt of respite care grants had increased. While I acknowledge this, she must acknowledge that, to be awarded carer's allowance or the respite care grant, an onerous medical assessment is made of the caree. As such, each and every one of the people receiving those payments is a deserving case.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Hear, hear.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Those people deserve much more than this State has ever granted them.

We have examined the figures, as has the Carers Association. When the water charges are included, every family carer will be financially worse off next year than he or she is this year. I have the figures and can give them to the Tánaiste later if she wishes, but her Department is well capable of running them as well. The Tánaiste can prevent this situation from happening. Will she please use the Social Welfare Bill to restore to carers the €325 that the Government cut from the respite care grant two years ago? It would cost approximately €30 million.

That is substantially less than half of what the Government spent on consultants in Irish Water. Such a restoration would send out a solid message to carers and would be a badly-needed investment in carers. I ask the Tánaiste to give thought to this matter, as she has a number of weeks in which to take this appropriate action. Moreover, she would be praised were she to look again at the budgetary arithmetic and to find the money, whether it comes from Irish Water or wherever, to ensure these carers are properly appreciated rather than what is happening, which is they no longer are being appreciated because their income will be cut next year.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste has one minute.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am happy to state that in addition to the partial restoration of the Christmas bonus in December, which will be highly significant for carers and other people in their households, the Government will be moving to improve the situation of carers, the people they care for, older people and children whose family are in receipt of a domiciliary care allowance. The Deputy's suggestion is to take money from some of those categories and to give it to carers.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is not true.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do not believe the Deputy's judgment in this instance is correct.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

When did he say that?

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I did not say that.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Most families want the respite grant back.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Please.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As the Deputy is aware, Sinn Féin makes an argument-----

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste is out of touch and should show some leadership on the issue.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Sinn Féin makes the argument that its budgets are costed.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is a disgrace how the Tánaiste is misrepresenting the issue.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In addition, carers with children will be getting an increase in child benefit in January, about which I am delighted. Second, the people they look after who live alone or who are older will get a living alone increase, being brought up to €9.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That has all been factored into the figures and they still are coming out with less.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As for Irish Water, all the groups of whom I have spoken - and specifically and importantly, carers - will get €100 to support water payments.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is factored into the figures.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Consequently, in this budget carers have been at the heart of the Government's budget strategy-----

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I will give the figures to the Tánaiste.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----in terms of distributing a social welfare package of approximately €200.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is not true. What about the tax cuts for the better off?

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Shortall can give it back if she wishes but I do not think she will.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Sorry Tánaiste, we are over time.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

A report was published in the North this morning, where the Deputy's party is in government, stating that the position of carers there is far worse than it is, for instance, in the South because the payments-----

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is to further a campaign for fiscal and financial power that we do not have. It calls for tax-raising powers because past Governments here did not support our demands for the transfer of financial and tax-raising powers.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Sinn Féin is in government there. I suggest to the Deputy it should take some responsibility. A report was issued in respect of carers in the North and Sinn Féin is responsible there. The Deputy should acknowledge-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Sorry Tánaiste, we are five minutes over time.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Well over time.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----as he did, that the Government has sought and has increased significantly the total amount it is spending on carers.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Government has made its choices.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It spent €80 million on the consultants in Irish Water.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Sinn Féin in government in the North does not seem capable of addressing the issue. What is its problem?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I call Deputy Joan Collins on behalf of the Technical Group.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, United Left)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I wish to make an observation regarding the comment made by the Tánaiste in her interview in the SIPTU journal, in which she appears to have pulled back and to have changed her tune from her attitude in this Chamber two weeks ago regarding working people actually having smart phones, being able to use them and being able to interact with social media. Many people found those remarks to be highly patronising and contentious.

That said, I wish to raise the issue of scoliosis and the number of children who are awaiting surgery in the Our Lady's Children's Hospital, Crumlin. I have been contacted by many families on this issue, as well as by Scoliosis Ireland, which has made the point that waiting lists have continued to increase in this area over the recent past.. As the Tánaiste is aware, scoliosis is a serious condition that causes curvature of the spine and in more serious cases, if not treated it affects children leaving their backs twisted and deformed and can put pressure on their lungs and heart. More than 530 children are stuck on waiting lists for orthopaedic surgery at Crumlin children's hospital. Moreover, 50 children who need surgery for curvature of the spine are waiting for up to 18 months and more for surgery at Crumlin and Tallaght hospitals. Patrick Kiely, who is a consultant at Crumlin hospital, has stated these delays not only cause increased deformity and discomfort in a growing child but also lead to more complex surgery and treatment also being more costly. In a newspaper comment, he stated:

It’s counterproductive. The risks rise, complications are more likely, in some cases spinal deformity grows rapidly worse. And it’s not economically sensible. Research indicates a 15%-30% increased cost associated with correcting the more severe curves.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

First, the Deputy raised the issue of telephones and cameras. I am delighted that people have lots of telephones and cameras.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste was not last week.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In fairness, and to correct the record, the Deputy raised what she considered to be an issue regarding Garda behaviour and monitoring of protests in respect of Irish Water. She was suggesting that the gardaí somehow were not behaving properly. I told her that in my experience of the people involved in the protest, everything is filmed and I stated it would be possible to verify any suggestions made by the Deputy, because everything is uploaded onto social media and is available there. I am delighted that this is the case. If I gave any other impression, I am very happy to correct that. I also stated that I am a keen photographer myself-----

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Not with a mobile telephone.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

----- which is why it is great to see that people have that kind of equipment.

The Deputy was speaking about An Garda Síochána and I simply suggested to her that all of the material was available on social media. I am glad that people are filming it because it does mean it is very clear as to what is happening.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste is answering last week's question.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What about the scoliosis?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Sorry, could we deal with the matter?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In respect of Our Lady's Children's Hospital, Crumlin and the Deputy's question on scoliosis, she is probably aware that happily, as with social protection and the previous discussion, a lot of additional money has been allocated to the health budget, both for this year and, better still, for next year. A total of well over €800 million has been allocated, much of which will go to hospitals. The Deputy also is aware the Government has made an allocation for a significant capital investment to build a new children's hospital. I certainly know children and individuals with this condition and the Deputy's observations are correct, as it is a condition that requires long-term care and long-term monitoring, particularly when it is identified early in childhood.

I do not have to hand a detailed answer to the Deputy's question in the context of this discussion but I undertake to get information and to revert to the Deputy. However, in the context of additional expenditure of more than €800 million in health in funding for this year and for next, as well as in respect of the capital investment programme, there should be scope to improve the numbers of operations and to improve the waiting times as this is a very important factor in the treatment of growing children who have this condition. I will raise the issue raised by the Deputy with the Minister for Health and will provide her with a more detailed reply.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, United Left)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Tánaiste for her reply. The issue of waiting lists is a serious matter. People have been told they will be obliged to wait for more than 18 months for operations. A young girl named Shauna Franklin from New Ross has gone public in the newspapers and has requested - she actually begged - that penny-pinching health chiefs should allow her to have a life-saving operation.

She made the point that money should not be the reason she cannot have a life-transforming operation, which should be carried out sooner rather than later.

The orthopaedic consultant-population ratio is at least two times lower here than in the rest of the Western world; we have approximately one spinal surgeon for 250,000 people. In 2009, to save costs on staff and overheads, the hospital closed 25 beds and one operating theatre. These must be reopened. The consultants say they need extra theatre capacity, extra time and more surgeons in the hospital to deal with the issue. Otherwise, these lists will get longer and children will have to wait longer and suffer more, with further curvature of their spines and their conditions deteriorating. On behalf of these families, not me, I ask the Minister to raise this issue urgently with the Minister for Health to try to get it dealt with. The Minister said that more money is going into the health service. Since 2012, this Government's first budget, €1 billion has been taken out of the health service. It went from €14 billion down to €13.1 billion, but that is not the issue. Money has to be made available to deal with this issue of the patient waiting lists in Crumlin children's hospital.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Hear, hear.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy asked about a number of individual cases. She may have already tabled a parliamentary question to the Minister for Health. If she has not, I strongly suggest she would do that because I am not able----

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am trying to answer the Deputy. I am not able to give her an answer immediately here on a case about which I have not been given some prior information but if the Deputy tables a parliamentary question to the Minister for Health, I am sure he will do his best to assist her.

For Crumlin children's hospital, as the Deputy knows, the most important point is that this country has committed to building a new, state of the art-----

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, United Left)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Patients are waiting 18 months.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----children's hospital as well as prioritising funding for children in the context of the spend on health in Ireland. I told the Deputy it was an extra €800 million. In terms of our population, that is a very significant increase in a budget. I do not know the detailed breakdown but I strongly anticipate that the management of Crumlin hospital, and the consultants who will be part of the management structure, will be able, with the additional resources being provided overall in health, to prioritise the children who most need assistance.

I agree with the young girl from New Ross about whom the Deputy spoke. Obviously, it is a priority for everybody in government to ensure that she gets her necessary treatment as quickly as possible. It is a difficult condition. Modern medicine has advanced enormously to be able to help people and if the Deputy gives us the details, I will have them examined. I will raise the issue with the Minister for Health, and I certainly would like to see that young girl getting whatever treatment is appropriate for her as soon as possible.