Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In 2009 the now Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Simon Coveney, published the NewERA policy platform of Fine Gael, which committed Fine Gael to establishing Irish Water as a utility to charge for water. This was the clear stated policy of Fine Gael at the time. I would like to know who advised Deputy Coveney at the time on this policy and whether his policy advisers had fully thought through the proposal itself. When Fine Gael came into Government it hired PricewaterhouseCoopers to advise it on the best way to establish Irish Water in line with its policy. What is interesting is that the PwC report gave 17 disadvantages as to why the Government should not proceed the way it did in establishing Irish Water as a subsidiary of a State agency, one being less flexibility in establishing the terms and conditions for new members of the workforce and in determining the most appropriate mix. Another was the level of external support required to plan, manage and execute the integration of Irish Water into an existing utility, and another that multi-utilities tend not to achieve synergies anticipated. Consequently PwC stated that on balance, it saw no compelling reason to assign responsibility for water services provision to another State agency.

The Government ignored this advice for some reason. Was it lobbied? Did somebody tell it to ignore it and go the route it eventually went? It is because of taking this route and ignoring this advice that the Government now has the bonus payment culture where people will get bonuses for underperforming. This is why the set-up costs were enormous at €180 million, including consultants. The Government was warned about this too. This is why in the full cost recovery model there are call-out charges of €188, and €282 if it is outside normal hours, which are frightening people. The other day I met a young couple starting out who are facing a €7,000 connection bill in a built-up area-----

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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The Government is on the ropes.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----although they had already paid €12,000 to the local authority in development levies for water infrastructure. What is the Taoiseach's response to all of this? It is shabby and sleveen to undermine the chief executive officer, a process that started at last week's parliamentary party meeting when unparliamentary things were said about him behind closed doors, but cleverly leaked out to pave the way for a week-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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A question please.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----of sniping and underhand indications that his position was coming under threat. Has any member of the Government or anyone in government approached the chairperson of Irish Water with a view to the CEO stepping down? We had many briefings yesterday from five or six Ministers across the board, all of them refusing in any shape or form to endorse the management.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Given the debacle we have and given that 1 million people have not even signed up, will the Taoiseach consider suspending the application of water charges pending a full independent review of the structures the Government has set up-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are well over time. Come on.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----and in terms of developing a proper plan with ability to pay central to it?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Martin. The position has been very clear for some time that this State has never invested to the extent it should have in the provision of proper infrastructure for water.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Are we the devil, so?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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No one, irrespective of political affiliations, can argue with the point that something needed to be done in respect of the poor quality of water and of treatment works in many areas, that 40% of water has been leaking away-----

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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It is still leaking.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----and that the charge of producing that water is very costly. No one can argue with that. When Government considered it-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Super quango.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----given the calamitous economic circumstances in which Fianna Fáil left the country, looking at the question of how we could invest to improve the quality, volume and integrity of the water system for the next 50 years, the Government made its decision after having looked at the PricewaterhouseCoopers report. The question was whether we should set up Irish Water as an entity on its own, or as an entity that might be amalgamated or part of another commercial company, such as Bord na Móna or Bord Gáis Éireann. Despite the fact PwC made recommendations, the Government made its decision on the basis of setting up Irish Water with a view to being able to borrow off balance sheet to provide decent investment for infrastructure for water for business and for domestic consumers alike. The Government made its decision after very careful deliberation.

As the Deputy knows, by the end of November the merged unitary board of Ervia and Irish Water will take place because the remit of the current board ends at the end of November. The decision to have a unitary board with personnel with specialist credentials will obviously apply.

It is not a case of call-out charges having been endorsed or approved at a level of €188. I have no idea where that came from, but the regulator may be addressing that at the Oireachtas committee meeting today.

The Deputy referred to the shabby treatment of the chief executive officer.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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A good Tipperary man.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am aware of the chief executive officer's very long service to the public in general, with a lifetime career in it. I have every confidence Mr. John Tierney can do his job.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Where is he hiding?

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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Could the Taoiseach not find him last night?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The remark that was made by a Deputy at last week's Fine Gael Parliamentary Party meeting was withdrawn. The Government recognises there are legitimate areas of public concern, on which the Government reflected this morning and on which the Government will act.

The Deputy mentioned suspending water charges. I am not sure where he is coming from now because his party's programme following the troika stated there should be a minimum charge of €400 with no allowances. Fianna Fáil's budgetary position from last week refers to reducing the impact of water charges. It stated that the imposition of water charges will be a significant burden on all households and that Fianna Fáil was committed to an examination of the structure of water charges to introduce a greater degree of fairness and recognition of ability to pay. I understand the concern about ability to pay. However, Fianna Fáil did not include anything about suspension of water charges in its budgetary submission last week.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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We did not know about the bonuses.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Nor is it included in its Private Members' motion scheduled for debate this evening. It seems that Fianna Fáil Members are scared witless of the guys on their right hand side and they are scared witless of the guys to the left of them.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach did not answer my first question.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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And rightly so.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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I do not believe he answered the second one either.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Did any member of Government approach the chairperson of Irish Water-----

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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No.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----with a view to the CEO's position? I had asked the Taoiseach that question.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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They will yet.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I can answer truthfully. To my knowledge, the answer to that question is "No".

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Not yet.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Why did the Government ignore the PwC recommendation? I will tell the Taoiseach why I believe it did. I think it was politically preordained that it was going to Bord Gáis Éireann. That is my view.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a supplementary question?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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While it might not have stated "under no circumstances", it gave 17 compelling reasons it should not be merged within an existing semi-State entity. At the end it stated: "Recent examples (such as Welsh Water, the former United Utilities and Hyder Group) indicate that multi utilities tend not to achieve the synergies anticipated." Ministers and the Taoiseach are wringing their hands about the bonus culture.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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A question, please.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The reason there is a bonus culture is that the Government took a decision to have it as a subsidiary of Bord Gáis Éireann from day one. If the Taoiseach and the Ministers were honest, they should stop going around saying: "Oh, horror, horror, horror; there are bonuses being paid." They knew that from the beginning.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should ask a supplementary question. We are over time.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It was a political decision that the Government took and that is why we have the bonus culture.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Christmas is coming.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is why we have the excessive costs associated with the establishment of Irish Water.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to put his supplementary question.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Only two weeks ago the Taoiseach said in the Dáil that no bonuses were paid. He gave a strong indication that no bonuses would be paid and he skirted around it. The "This Week" programme on RTE Radio 1-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is not listening to me. He is way over time.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Apologies, a Cheann Comhairle. That programme revealed the bonus culture. One million people have not signed up. People do not know whether they are coming or going regarding the water charges regime. They only finally learnt about a day before the charges were applied.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Would the Deputy put his question?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The thing is a mess and it is causing huge social upheaval and a lot of anger.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It was a mess Fianna Fáil left us.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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This is the final point I will make. The Government rammed this through the House last Christmas with three hours of debate. For the first and only time, the Opposition combined to walk out of the House. The Government Deputies laughed at us for walking out of the House.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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They are not laughing today.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is Leaders' Questions. Would the Deputy please put a question?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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They will not be laughing for a long time to come because of that jackboot type of tactic.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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These issues could have been teased out and could have been debated properly, but-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am asking the Deputy for the third time to put his supplementary question.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----because of the Taoiseach and the Government Whip, Deputy Kehoe, we never got a chance to debate it for even more than two hours.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Government Members have no water to wash the smiles off their faces.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I do not know what the question is.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not believe Deputy Martin's heart is in this at all.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Is the Taoiseach's?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He talks about Government ignoring advice.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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We know where the Taoiseach's head is.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Government is about making decisions. Does Deputy Martin not recall the €7 million of taxpayers' money his Government paid to an international firm that advised it against the bank guarantee which was supposed to deliver the cheapest bailout in history? Does he not remember that?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Fine Gael voted for it.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Does he not remember the advice that Government got that it could save 1 billion quid and not be taking it from old people? The Deputy himself was advised by two senior civil servants and of course he had no responsibility for this at all. Deputy Martin talks about the bonus culture. As I have said quite clearly, the Government does not set the pay model or pay scales for commercial companies.

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Rabbitte approved it-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Would Deputies please stay quiet?

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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-----when he was Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy Fleming, we cannot hear.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government was warned not to go down this route because it could not control it.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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No one I know complains about the efficiency, work rate, productivity or output of Ervia-Bord Gáis Éireann. The unions in that company accepted the pay model set out for them by their board. That puts an element of their pay at risk. Unless they perform they will not get that element of that pay. I do not believe that anyone who underperforms should be given a bonus or performance pay in the first place.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Taoiseach.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The targets set for Ervia have been quite stringent. I confirmed to the Deputy in the Dáil last week that no one in Irish Water had received a bonus.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Yet.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Martin is flexible with his language here.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach is minimalist with his.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach did not tell us they would be getting it.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There is a pay freeze until 2016, as the Deputy is aware.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Taoiseach, we are over time.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is not a case of the Government-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The media were looking for the information all week and for some reason it was not available.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, will you stop shouting? Thank you.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----setting out the pay scales for a commercial State company.

A Deputy:

No, because it is embarrassing to the Government.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Mr. Tierney was brought in after this was set up and he cannot be blamed for that.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Taoiseach, we are over time.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Thousands are registering every day for Irish Water. It behoves us as a Government in the political sphere where we can make decisions to be clear and decisive in order that the public can have confidence that the reasons for Irish Water being set up are in the nation's interest.

These are the provision of clean water, drinking water-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Expensive water.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----proper infrastructure and treatment works that stand up to scrutiny. The company, the same as any other commercial semi-State company, should deliver efficiently and effectively in the interest of its customers. That is where we need to get to. Clearly we have a number of issues to deal with and they will be dealt with shortly.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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The Taoiseach is on the ropes.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The imposition of domestic water charges on top of all the other charges the Government has imposed on people is part of an agenda of privatisation shared by Fianna Fáil. The manner in which the company was established and is being managed and in which the unfair water charges have been imposed has been chaotic and farcical and the Taoiseach misses the main point, which is that the vast majority of people cannot pay. It is not that they will not pay; they simply cannot pay. It has emerged that struggling families will be charged €180 for a call-out to fix leaking pipes. The Taoiseach has dismissed that and said he does not know where that came from. I checked before I came to the House that he told me on 7 October no bonus would be paid. The noises from the Government all appear to be about scapegoating the board and senior management team in Irish Water.

No one was clearer about the creation of the company than the former Minister of State, Deputy O'Dowd who said: "It's a mess and it's the Government's mess." Will the Taoiseach accept that, as an entity, Uisce Éireann is toxic and that it cannot in its present form be left with the responsibility for the deliver of water services in this State? Does he further accept that Uisce Éireann must be fundamentally and radically reformed into a single public utility that acts in the interest of citizens? Will he acknowledge that the message he got in the by-elections and on the streets of Dublin is that people are against what the Government is doing because they cannot afford what it is calling on them to do? Fianna Fáil is belatedly calling for a suspension of water charges. Does the Taoiseach accept that he can do nothing other than abolish this second domestic water charge? People cannot pay it and his Government should acknowledge that.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not share the Deputy's view at all. It is clear in the legislation that this entity cannot be privatised and the Deputy should not go around scaremongering that this is an attempt or the beginning of a process to privatise Uisce Éireann. It is beneath him to say that, given he can read the language clearly in the legislation.

Clearly, the concern about payment is a legitimate concern for everyone and there is a degree of confusion because of the scale of the assistance that is being provided through the tax credit system, the household package and other elements of the social protection system. I remind the Deputy that what we want to do is ensure every household in the country is given a free allowance through the provision of almost €600 million of a subsidy from the Government to Irish Water. This was one of the pillars of direction given by the Government to the regulator that children should be free and there should be an average meter charge of €240 per annum or an assessed charge for two plus two of €278.

The Deputy will be aware that the regulator has indicated that the assessed charge will continue for nine months from the date of billing next year. That means, for instance, if people use more water than that to which the €278 charge applies and their bill is less than that, they will pay the lesser amount. There is an incentive not only to register to avail of the household charge but also to conserve water. That is an essential part of why Irish Water was set up in the first place. We need to invest off balance sheet to provide quality treatment works and quality infrastructure in order that people can have high quality drinking water and ensure water is available for business and consumers alike.

The matter of people ringing Irish Water or councils and not getting an answer is being considered and dealt with by Irish Water and Ervia. No more than other entities in the past, for example, SUSI and the issue relating to higher education grants and other issues of great concern to people, once they are dealt with and people have answers to their questions, things can calm down.

This is very important for the future of the people and the economy. We have not measured up for the past 40 or 50 years and it is time to deal with it.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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The Taoiseach is right that the Government has not measured up.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I accept there are issues that are a cause of concern and we will deal with those clearly, decisively and effectively in order that people can understand what they will get from the payments and contributions they make.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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People have the right to water. I know it is not free and has to be paid for. Sinn Féin has shown how it can be paid for.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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It has not.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I was at a public meeting last night in Dundalk and I heard speaker after speaker say from the floor that they cannot pay this. They included women with small children, elderly people and people living on their own. They are dealing with the reality that they will get water dependent on their wealth and they will get water if they can set aside some other bill. The Minister for Finance said that the water charges are modest while the Taoiseach also said there is no bonus culture. I do not accept his statement that the company cannot be privatised. On 1 November in every county and in as many towns as possible, there will be demonstrations calling on the Government to scrap these water charges.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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A question, please.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I call on people to come out, demonstrate and show the Government that what happened in Dublin recently was not a one-off.

Regardless of what the Taoiseach says about Fianna Fáil, Deputy Doherty spelt out in Sinn Féin's alternative budget how this could be paid for, but all the time the Taoiseach has repeatedly missed the point on this issue. The people have had tax upon tax, charge upon charge, punitive measure upon punitive measure imposed on them and, at the same time, they have had cuts in health services, child benefit, carer's allowance and elderly citizens' entitlements. This is a cut too far and people cannot afford it. I ask the Taoiseach to please accept and acknowledge that and to do something decisive about it. He should stop the imposition of water charges and deal with this as it should be dealt with.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not accept at all that Sinn Féin's budget submission measures up to reality. There is a €500 million hole in there-----

Sandra McLellan (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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There is not.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is going around the country telling people in every constituency that the charge for water will be €1,000.That is what he and his people are saying.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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We never said that.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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They are scaring people.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The charge will be €1,000. Sinn Féin is calling on people not to pay property charges or water charges and telling them it will look after them and we will have a great country.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Who said that?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Adams. He does not live in the real world at all. People in Dundalk are as entitled to have legitimate concerns as people in Cork or anywhere else.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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They will be glad the Taoiseach recognises that.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is good to talk about them but it is also good to remember that 80% of the bills that will go out from Irish Water will be for €24 or less per month. The Government has set out a range of supports for people in different categories and we want them to reach every household in the country. Members' contributions to last week's budget debate pointed out that a number of households would not attract the current benefits because of their level of income tax or support. We need to cover all households. From that point of view, I remind the Deputy that the Minister for Social Protection will introduce a €5 payment per week per child in child benefit to be followed up again next year and the year after, if the Government is re-elected, and, much to his astonishment, the return of a Christmas bonus of 25%, which will be dealt with in the social welfare legislation.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It would not pay for the turkey.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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What about respite care?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I refer again to the reasons for setting up Irish Water, which are to deal with the poor infrastructure, the poor quality drinking water in many cases and the poor quality of treatment works.

It is important we fix all these for the next 50 years. That is why Irish Water was set up. We have to move to a situation whereby Irish Water, as part of the Ervia board, can deal with the practicality of answering telephone calls and providing people with information about leaks and how they can be fixed and so on. It is also important from a Government point of view that there is certainty in regard to the charges and levels that will apply and for how long they will apply in terms of the structure set out. The two policy positions put to the regulator by Government were that water provision in respect of every child should be free and that every household should be entitled to a 30,000 litre free allowance on production of a PPS number.

The service is not being privatised. It is being retained in public ownership for the benefit of the people. It is time to deal with this issue and to do so in a fair and clear way in order that people know exactly what they will get for the payments they make.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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The Taoiseach's 100% confidence in Mr. John Tierney is akin to his 100% confidence in the former Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence, Deputy Shatter.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must not mention people's names in the Chamber.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Okay. When I challenged the appointment of Mr. Tierney by the former Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Hogan, and asked why an engineer or other person with experience in water had not been appointed to the position, I was assured Mr. Tierney was the right man for the job. While it appears that this was a political appointment, I agree that throwing Mr. Tierney under the bus would not solve any problems.

The Taoiseach said that, as in the case of SUSI, Irish Water needs time to settle down. If that is what he truly believes, he is missing a great deal. The structure of Irish Water is wrong. While Irish Water is taking over responsibility for water and waste services, it is not taking over responsibility for surface water, storm water and flooding. The reason for this is because one cannot charge people for storm water or flooding. It is not possible to make any money out of doing that, and as flooding is unpredictable, it would be unattractive to a buyer. The Taoiseach has assured us the service will never be privatised. If he is so sure of that, is he prepared to amend the Constitution by way of referendum to ensure that remains the case, as was done in Italy when 96% of people there voted against Berlusconi's attempt to privatise water services?

Irish Water was established on the advice of consultants that a new model rather than the local authorities should be responsible for water services. Despite that €85 million was spent on advice, it turned out to be useless and included protocols that did not work, including a protocol in relation to connections which was a total nonsense. Irish Water is in communication with the local authorities on how to make these protocols work. It is at stage five of the tweaking process.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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A question, please.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Irish Water is also seeking access to local authority databases countrywide. Is there in place a data protection agreement between Irish Water and the Data Protection Commissioner regarding local authority databases? Is the Taoiseach prepared to provide by way of referendum and amendment of the Constitution that Irish Water can never be privatised?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Irish Water will not be privatised, as already provided for in legislation. I am prepared to stand by that. I do not accept the Deputy's assertion that the structure of Irish Water is wrong.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Taoiseach is the only one who does not.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Coming from the south east, the Deputy knows of the inadequate and different standards applied by some local authorities. It is necessary to have in place a system throughout the country which ensures the highest standards in terms of the production, treatment and utilisation of water. To be honest with the Deputy, I do not believe Irish Water has done itself justice, including when its officials appeared before an Oireachtas committee earlier this year, in terms of setting out what people will get for the contributions they make, including, for example, the priority they attach to the quality of drinking water. I am sure Deputy Wallace, like Deputy Fitzmaurice, would not want 20,000 people in Roscommon to continue to have to boil water prior to use. It is time to deal with that issue. Substantial investments were made last year in the treatment works which will sort out that problem for those people. There are a number of towns throughout the country where lead piping exists and in respect of which Irish Water has issued advice pending replacement of those lead pipes which can be a serious cause of concern to people and their health.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The lead is over there now.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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As Deputy Wallace is aware, this issue has been ongoing for many years. Clearly, those 20,000 people cannot be left in that situation. I do not accept the Deputy's statement that the structure is wrong. I believe the Government has done the right thing in setting up Irish Water as an entity that will not be privatised and can borrow off balance sheet for investment to improve the quality of the services given to people, business and so on. It is a matter for Ervia, with Irish Water, to address the practical problems being experienced daily by people in terms of communicating with them about their particular situations.

In so far as Government is concerned, there is a need for improved clarity for people in order that they can have confidence that the contributions they make will go towards the improvement of the infrastructure and water quality for all our people and businesses. While some decisions in this regard remain to be made, Ervia, Irish Water and the Government will see to it that happens.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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The Taoiseach stated there has been under-investment in Irish water. In my view, there is still under-investment in this area in that Government is not investing in it at all. All Government is doing is investing in a process that can charge for water. It is creating an entity that is saleable. It is not investing in water and has taken no action to mend the leaks or in respect of retrofitting, harvesting or pressure control on taps. This Government does not appear to give a damn about water. It has done nothing about improving water quality and is currently only spending money on the creation of a structure that can charge for water services, which entity will in the future be saleable. Why have waste treatment plants been put on the long finger? There is currently no investment in waste treatment plants, which means that because we are way behind in this regard, we will be faced with fines by the EU.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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A question, please.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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If the Government was truly concerned about improving water quality in Ireland, rather than create an entity that can charge for it and will in future be saleable, it would have invested in the local authorities doing so. The Taoiseach might say that the local authorities did not take the opportunity to do so for many years, but they were never given the money to do so. Why was this not regionalised? The four local authorities in Dublin working in conjunction with Wicklow, Kildare and Meath county councils could, with investment, have dealt with the problems identified. Reference was made to lead pipes. The lead pipes are located on the house side.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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A question, please, Deputy.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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This means that if they need fixing-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Ask your question, please.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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People are to be charged €188 for a call-out. The four-inch cast iron pipes on the main side will be replaced rather than fixed. One system operates in Dublin city. Surface water goes into waste. Irish Water is to charge for surface water going into waste. When will a surface water system be put in place and who will pay for it because Irish Water will not? The Taoiseach might also respond to my earlier question of whether there is in place a data protection agreement between Irish Water and the Data Protection Commissioner in regard to the local authority databases from which Irish Water is seeking PPS numbers.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is way over time. Please adhere to the Chair.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Is there an agreement in place?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not know the answer to that question. I can tell the Deputy that there is an agreement in place between Irish Water and the Department of Social Protection in respect of PPS numbers. I will confirm at a later date the position in respect of the question raised by the Deputy.

The Deputy makes the case for the establishment of Irish Water. There are 126 plants in respect of which remedial action is required. These plants are inferior in standard and need to be attended to. The money to deal with them was never available. That is part of the programme being set out by Irish Water.

In Vartry, here in Dublin, major investment of €150 million is needed to bring what is a 19th century scheme up to modern standards. That cannot be fully delivered until the end of the planned period, which is 2020, subject to planning permissions.

In terms of lead pipes, there are virtually no lead pipes left in the mains distribution system-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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They are everywhere.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----but 100,000 homes are connected to lead service pipes.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Take that back.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Irish Water has set out a ten-year timeframe to eliminate those service pipes into houses that will service another 3,000 to 4,000 homes, but there is an estimated cost in that respect of between €200 million and €300 million.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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And asbestos pipes too.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Perhaps Irish Water has published this but it has not been transmitted down to people through the local radio systems so that they will know the timescales in terms of what is involved here in each area. For instance, it gives advice where people have a service pipe into their house which is comprised in part of lead. Irish Water proposes to install chemicals in the Limerick city plant within the next eight weeks which it believes will help to lower the levels of lead as the chemical will put a lining on the inside of the pipes. Deputy Wallace should know that many good practical improvements are being made-----

A Deputy:

It is a start.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----and it is a case for Ervia and Irish Water to get out there and explain to people what is happening. It is a requirement of Government to set out standards and provide clarity so that people know the charge and the structure of what is involved. In that way, they can have confidence in signing up.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Thousands of people are registering every day for a situation which will improve water quality, improve water standards, improve infrastructure, and will bein situfor the next 50 years for the good of the people of the country.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)
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Dream on.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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It is a dysfunctional monster.