Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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3. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills if she will support a reduction in class size. [38016/14]

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I congratulate the Minister on her new portfolio and the Minister of State, Deputy English, on his. A good reforming Minister for Education and Skills will always listen to pupils, teachers and parents to build and plan for the future.

Today, I ask the Minister to listen to me and to tell us whether she will support a reduction in class size. This is a major issue for education. One third of pupils in parts of Dublin are in classes with more than 30 pupils. Class size here is back to where it was ten years ago and one out of every four children in primary school is squeezed into a class of 30 or more. Will the Minister look at the option of reducing class size in primary schools?

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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I will always listen to the Deputy and his colleagues.

My main priority for any additional resources for the foreseeable future will be to cater for the continuing increase in demographics at all levels in the education system. We have a growing population of young people in this country and despite the difficult financial circumstances we face as a country, we prioritised education so the number of teachers we have in the system has also grown in order to protect existing pupil teacher ratios. There were 1,000 more teachers employed in schools around the country in the past school year than there was the previous year. There will be a further increase of approximately 1,300 teachers in the current school year.

This is an increase of approximately 2,300 teachers within a two year period, which is a significant investment at a time of scarce resources. My focus in preparing for budget 2015 must be to seek the funding necessary to meet this demographic growth and not on additional spending measures such as that proposed by the Deputy. If in future years there is funding available to reduce class sizes, my preference is that it would be targeted at reducing class sizes at infant years.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I strongly disagree with the Minister. I accept that her focus must be on dealing with the number of new children starting in our schools, but that ignores the broader point that she has choices in the forthcoming budget. The Government can put money into health and education or into tax breaks for wealthy people. It is not acceptable if that is the kind of budget we get from the Labour Party.

On class size, in the first week of September this year we had 135,000 pupils in super-sized classes. That is an increase from 96,000 in 2006-07. If we look deeper into the figures, some 27,400 pupils are in classes greater than the EU average of 20. We must look into this. More seriously, some 7,100 pupils are in classes of over 30. Will the Minister accept we have a major problem in regard to class size? Will she accept the principle that when one has choices to make in a budget, moneys should be put into services such as health and education rather than given to people who are financially well off?

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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I share the Deputy's concern that we should reduce class size as soon as we can. However, we are still in a tight budgetary situation. In terms of the education budget, even if we receive the same amount as last year, we will need more because of the increased pupil numbers. This must be our priority. We must have teachers for the extra children.

One of the issues in regard to the figures for the rest of the European Union is that, by and large, those countries do not have growing populations and increasing numbers of children. The Deputy is correct that our class size is above the European average. We are also slightly above the OECD average of 21.3. The average class size here is 24.4. As the Deputy knows, the pupil-teacher ratio is not as high as the figure he gave for the larger classes, because of the variety in class numbers. In DEIS schools we have a lower pupil-teacher ratio and I support that.

The projected number of pupils for the current school year is 544,762 at primary level and 338,046 at post-primary level. We have a large population in that age category and must cater for them. I would like to reduce class size and the pupil-teacher ratio as soon as possible, but we remain in a tight budgetary situation as a country.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I am pleased to see the Minister has accepted that our primary class sizes are the most crowded in the European Union. I strongly believe it is time to reduce them.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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I said we were above the average. I did not say we had the most crowded classes.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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We have to reverse class sizes and plan for a sustainable network of education in schools.

There is another important issue. We spend millions every year training young teachers in our colleges of education but then they are forced to emigrate or go to different countries. We must consider that as well. If we employed them and gave them the extra jobs in our schools, they would be contributing through their taxes and they would be making a contribution to the economic growth we all seek.

Another often ignored issue is the number of children with disabilities in large mainstream classes. For example, there are 200 children with Down's syndrome in our primary schools who are not getting an adequate service. How can schools give them a quality service in large classes? That is another serious issue the Minister should consider.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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I reiterate that we have had an increase of 2,300 mainstream teachers in the past two years. Deputy McGrath referred to children with special needs. The Deputy is probably aware that the National Council for Special Education has issued a draft document on how we might review the system. It is out for public consultation at the moment. The council is keen to get responses and hear the views of parents and is interested in perhaps changing the model. There is an assessment at the moment. Certain categories of children need an assessment to get the supports they need. The idea is to try to find a better way of doing that. There are discussions in several of these areas around improving the situation generally and we will engage in those discussions in the coming year.