Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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12. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills her views on the fall in rankings of Irish universities in the recent Times Higher Education university rankings; her plans to proceed with a further 1% reduction in capitation payments to third level institutions in the upcoming budget; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [37963/14]

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy McConalogue should buy a national lottery ticket.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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My question asks the Minister for her views on the fall by Irish universities in the Times Higher Education, THE, university rankings. It also asks about her plans to proceed with a further 1% reduction in capitation payments to third level institutions in the upcoming budget in light of this fall.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy will probably be aware that there is substantial debate around the reliability of the various commercial global rankings and their capacity to capture the quality of higher education institutions. All international league tables vary greatly in how they rank universities and none captures the level of performance information that we are now tracking for the first time. The first ever performance report on the higher education system was published this year. Despite the challenges faced by third level colleges, it showed that the system was performing well. Having established a baseline performance, we will now be able to track whether the system gets better or worse on an annual basis. Overall, it is important to note that every university in Ireland ranks in the top 600 universities across each of the league tables, putting all of our universities in the top 5% of universities across the world.

Regarding the 1% reduction, this is already part of the budgetary figure for 2015 that was published in 2014. The Deputy will appreciate that in line with normal practice, we are unable this week to comment on issues relating to the budgetary process, although we might be able to discuss it more next week. I have been clear, however, in that we are seeking to secure funding to meet the significant demographic growth in our education system and not to reverse previous budgetary measures.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State. I wish him well and congratulate him on his appointment. This is his first Question Time, although we have met at a committee.

League tables and rankings are not an exact science, but the consistent message coming out is that our colleges have been sliding down a number of the rankings. Last week, Trinity College, Dublin, fell out of the THE's top 100 and UCD fell out of its top 200. This has implications for the standing of our education in international eyes and for attracting investment. It also has implications for the quality of education provided to students. This is no surprise given the consistent reduction in funding for the third level sector in the past number of years. The Government has continually put off making a decision on how to ensure adequate funding so as to prevent a further slide in the rankings. The CEO of the Higher Education Authority, Mr. Tom Boland, suggested that the Government's planned €250 increase in the student registration fee should this year be left with the institutions to which it is paid.

Can the Minister of State revert to me with a reply as to whether the Government will agree to do that?

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I again thank Deputy McConalogue for his comments at the outset. To work back through his questions, I naturally cannot answer his last question, as the Government is in the middle of a budgetary process for the next week or two and consequently, I cannot go into that at present. To clarify the positions and rankings of the universities, the QS World University Rankings show that seven universities in Ireland feature in the top 200. That is the top 1% out of 15,000 universities across the world and one should put this into perspective. As for the Times Higher Education rankings, Trinity College has lost ground slightly and has dropped from 129th to 138th place. UCD has slipped considerably from 161st to 220th place but NUIG has greatly improved its position. I note NUI Maynooth also has dropped slightly, while UCC has remained within the top 300. On being prone to exaggeration, the Deputy is correct that there are different league tables, all of which are assessed slightly differently. Overall, however, one should bear in mind that one is talking about the top 1% out of 15,000 universities.

The Deputy is correct to state that funding has been cut. I will not explain to him why that has happened, as I believe he is aware how we got here. While there have been cuts in funding in recent years, the Government will attempt to close that gap as things improve. The Deputy also referred to the Government delaying the decision. As he is aware, the expert working group on this area, chaired by Peter Cassells, is currently preparing the report on the future of funding policy for higher education. That group is due to make its internal report to the Government and to the Department by the end of 2014. It also will produce its public report early in 2015.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you. I will let the Minister of State back in.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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This will detail and will consider different ways to fund higher education in a sustainable way in the future and will involve industry, as well as Departments.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State, Deputy English, and acknowledge there are many fine universities in the State. I do not wish to suggest in any way that they are not so. However, the amount of funding provided to them is crucial to them being able to maintain the standards they have built up over many years. There has been significant pressure on them, which has been reflected in a number of slides in the rankings recently, particularly by UCD and Trinity College, which while marginal, definitely constitute a reduction. There is no doubt but that this reduction goes back to funding levels. Over the past three years, the Government has introduced each year an increase of €250 in the student registration fee. Despite increasing this charge to students, that money has not been left within the system, as the amount of money being given to the third level system has been reduced at the same time. This cannot continue without leading to a reduction in the quality at third level. I again emphasise that the Government intends to proceed with a further €250 increase.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you Deputy, we are over time.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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At the very minimum, will the Government agree to leave that within the system, in order that universities are allowed to try to maintain the standards they built up so well over many years?

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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Again, I cannot go into details of the budget this week as the Government is in the middle of negotiations on it. To clarify, however, the amount allocated last year through the Higher Education Authority for this area was €939 million, while in 2013 it was just over €1 billion. While I acknowledge there undoubtedly has been a slight reduction in this regard, the Deputy might understand this if I point it out the reason. When the present Government came into office three years ago, it was €20 billion short of the sum it needed to run the country. One should be clear on this point, as this shortfall of €20 billion was not of the Government's doing but was the position it inherited. It has been obliged to try to make sure that in the meantime, while the country recovers, it spends the money it has as best it can. Moreover, the Government has targeted it as best it can towards education and in most areas, it has protected the funding to education. To be clear, however, the Deputy has quoted tables and has stated the universities are slipping down while still trying to state they are doing well. They are doing extremely well, compared with the 15,000 universities against which they are competing throughout the world. The Government's own reports and evaluations suggest that in general, industry sources - an important viewpoint - are very satisfied with what is coming through the education system and the universities. Their graduates are employment-ready and are succeeding very well as graduates in employment. This also is how one judges the success of an education system within a recovering economy in which one also is trying to build an enterprise-driven economy.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is not present for Question No. 13.