Dáil debates

Tuesday, 23 September 2014

3:55 pm

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I want to return to the issue of social housing, which has rightly been raised frequently in this House over the past number of years. There are currently around 100,000 social housing applicants on local authority lists across the country. Many of these people would never have envisaged having to add their names to such lists and their failure to find housing sees them sleeping in cars and staying in bed and breakfast and hotel accommodation. They sleep on friends' sofas, floors and mattresses and families have been splintered by the failure to provide social housing. A man held in high esteem in Ireland and internationally, Fr. Peter McVerry, summed up the situation last May when he said that in his 40 years of dealing with homelessness he had never seen things so bad. He described a tsunami of homelessness relating to the housing shortage and said the situation was beyond crisis.

Does the Government agree with the Labour Party suggestion on introducing rent control? A cap has been placed on social housing rents and this has caused real difficulties, particularly in the greater Dublin area. Why has the Government not used the strategic investment fund to deliver social housing?

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for his questions. When Deputy Jan O'Sullivan was Minister of State with responsibility for housing she made significant progress on this but everyone appreciates that problems emerge as an economy comes out of recession and they must be addressed. Ireland has quickly gone from having no housing market to having problems on the supply side. The supply side affects the availability of both private housing and social housing. There is a new Minister at the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Alan Kelly, and a new Minister of State, Deputy Paudie Coffey. They are working assiduously to develop plans to meet the need for social housing. Suggestions such as those made by the Deputy will be considered because we all know there is a problem.

The Deputy will recall that when his party was in Government policy changed from the direct provision of houses by construction by local authorities to the use of local authority housing budgets to purchase private houses in private housing estates. That is one way to address supply but there are other ways and they will all be considered in the context of the budget.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I have much regard for the Minister, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, and we were told some time ago that she would engage with the Department of Social Protection to deal with the crisis in rent allowance but this problem has not been addressed. My main concern relating to the delivery of social housing is that we cannot wait for the implementation of another plan - we need a direct construction programme. The Minister and his colleagues in Government have spoken of a solution that is off-balance sheet. The Minister of State with responsibility for housing has spoken of the voluntary sector providing housing. The Minister recently suggested the National Asset Management Agency, NAMA, should provide housing. The Government is standing back from a burning crisis that is affecting the day-to-day lives of people, suggesting another entity, be it the voluntary sector or NAMA, should solve the problem. I suggest the Minister and the Government must solve the problem by directly building local authority housing. I suggest the National Pensions Reserve Fund be used as €1 billion would construct around 6,000 local authority houses, which would generate huge employment across the country. Funding from the National Pensions Reserve Fund could leverage other funding into the housing market. Will the Government take immediate action in these areas?

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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The disaster caused by Deputy Ó Fearghaíl's party in Government was so cataclysmic that every sector of the economy was affected.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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Answer the question.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Freagair an cheist.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please wait for the reply.

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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It totally fractured the capacity of the construction industry to provide either public or private houses.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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The recovery is now underway. Before Deputy Jan O'Sullivan was promoted to the office of Minister for Education and Skills she prevailed on local authorities to repair houses that were locked up as many such houses were around the country. That was the first step and then she held talks with NAMA that still continue. NAMA notified the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government several months ago that it has over 4,000 houses available for the purposes of social housing and local authorities indicate that they will take up around 2,000 of these.

The direct provision of housing is an option but it requires finance. The suggestion made by the Deputy is being considered but at this time of year Ministers are involved in negotiating Estimates for their Departments. When departmental budgets are set announcements will be made on all problems, including that identified by the Deputy.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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We are now in the throes of the usual pre-budget scenario - the flying of kites by various Ministers and shadow boxing between coalition partners. There is a sham fight between the Labour Party and Fine Gael while families watch and hope there will be an end to austerity.

Last week various Government Ministers trumpeted the improved Exchequer figures but the key point is that those figures give the opportunity to do the right thing. Citizens have faced repeated austerity budgets, cuts across the board to public services and tax increases. This has happened directly and through various stealth taxes. One cannot discuss recovery without giving families more money in their pockets, which can go back into the domestic economy. We cannot discuss a neutral budget while people are receiving application forms from Irish Water, Uisce Éireann, as we speak. People are wondering whether to give their personal public service, PPS, numbers and various details. How will people afford this extra charge?

The Minister for Finance knows better than most that he has a choice. He can continue to protect those at the top of Irish society or he can take the pressure off families that have been squeezed by these budgets. Will the Minister withdraw the plans for the implementation of water charges and give families a real break in this budget?

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I am glad the Deputy acknowledges the improving financial situation and the dramatic growth in GDP figures, which are up by 5.8% in the first six months of the year. I remind the Deputy that in the past three and a half years his party opposed every measure taken to get the country on an even keel.

Photo of Tom HayesTom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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They opposed every one of them.

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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The measures that were taken are the reasons the economy is now growing and Sinn Féin opposed every measure. I understand why the Deputy is subdued today. Sinn Féin hoped to build a political movement on the back of misery and failure in the economy but the country is not failing. The country is growing strongly again.

Photo of Dessie EllisDessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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Look at the national debt.

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I note that in this morning's newspaper Sinn Féin states that it has another red-line issue. First it was to abolish property tax and now it is to abolish water charges. These are red-line issues but nobody is rushing to join Sinn Féin in Government.

Photo of Tom HayesTom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Not even Deputy Mattie McGrath.

Photo of Seán CroweSeán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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Where is the queue to join Fine Gael in Government?

4:05 pm

Photo of Sandra McLellanSandra McLellan (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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Sell their souls.

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Putting down a red line issue is like an auld fellow walking up and down the boundaries of the ballroom of romance saying he will not dance with any of those women over there. Nobody wants to dance with him.

Photo of Tom HayesTom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Sinn Féin is lonesome.

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Nobody wants to dance with him. That is the position.

Photo of Dessie EllisDessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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We are not dancing with the troika. Perhaps the Minister does not realise about the €200 million and the national debt.

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Red lines? Is Deputy Mac Lochlainn joking me? If I could comment on Sinn Féin's economic position, it wants to abolish water charges and property tax. Where will it get the €800 million to bring it to the starting point, if it was ever unfortunate enough to be in government? Who will Sinn Féin nail?

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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Cut your wages for a start.

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Who are the rich?

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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Turn around.

Photo of Dessie EllisDessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister obviously does not know who the rich are because he has never taxed them.

Photo of Tom HayesTom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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In Sinn Féin's book a garda married to a teacher is rich.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Minister is quite capable of looking after himself.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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He is indeed.

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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It is difficult enough to construct budgets, but when one begins by moving back €800 million before one starts, then income tax will get a desperate belt, as will universal social charge and personal incomes. These are the Sinn Féin-----

Photo of Peter MathewsPeter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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What about the €700 million pension levy?

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Is Deputy Mathews against that also?

Photo of Peter MathewsPeter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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The biggest of them all. The Minister forgot about that.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Minister to ignore the side comments.

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I thought Deputy Mathews had more sense. It is not possible to construct a budget on the type of proposals Sinn Féin is making-----

Photo of Sandra McLellanSandra McLellan (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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It is.

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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-----and it needs to start again. Go back to basics. Now that the economy is growing, Sinn Féin needs a new model because what it has stated up to now is absolute economic nonsense.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Michael Healy-RaeMichael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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He would be a far better Taoiseach.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow Deputy Mac Lochlainn to put a supplementary question.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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One would think the Minister was doing stand-up at the Edinburgh fringe festival. Anybody watching today is looking at him and his fellow comedians behind him making light of the reality and sheer distress of so many families who are getting these letters through their doors and making choices and decisions. It is hugely disingenuous of the Minister because he knows that every year we give him detailed costed proposals for the budget with clear alternatives and choices. Every year, understandably, Fine Gael protects the very wealthy in society because that is what it is about.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Rubbish.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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What is shocking to people watching today is why the Labour Party continues to facilitate this agenda. This year once again Sinn Féin will provide the Minister with a fully costed budget with alternatives and choices for him to make. There will be no hiding place or stand-up comedy. There will be the reality he must face up to, with the electorate who will have to pay the bills come next January. It is about choices. Will the Minister protect those at the very top as he always has done, as all his language reflects, or will he bring in a genuinely fair and equal budget which starts to take the pressure off families throughout the State? This is his choice and we await his decision.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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The Minister might be the auld fellow in the ballroom of romance by the time this is all over.

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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The House appreciates I am making light of Sinn Féin's pretend economics. That is what I am making light of.

Photo of Dessie EllisDessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister is deflecting.

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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To summarise the fully costed three budget submissions Sinn Féin has made to me over the past three and a half years, it decided that 85% of the correction in the finances of the country should be made by way of tax increases-----

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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What are water and property charges?

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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-----and the total proposal of its tax increases was more than €7 billion. If Sinn Féin thinks the country can take an extra burden of €7 billion in taxation, whether it is the well off, those on middle incomes or the poor who must pay it-----

Photo of Peter MathewsPeter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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What about corporates?

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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-----it is absolute nonsense. This is what I am illustrating today. I am making light of the so-called economic proposals Sinn Féin is bringing forward. I can understand why it took its stance against the policies we pursued, which were dubbed as austerity policies, but now that it has been proved they have been successful-----

Photo of Dessie EllisDessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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It has not been successful. Real people are suffering.

Photo of Sandra McLellanSandra McLellan (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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Successful for whom? For the homeless?

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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-----and that the economy is growing dramatically, if Sinn Féin wants to be a serious force in the Parliament, it should at least get background people who understand economics and who can add.

Photo of Sandra McLellanSandra McLellan (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister's Department. The Department of Finance.

Photo of Peter MathewsPeter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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What about corporate taxation?

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Is Deputy Mathews sitting out this dance?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask Deputy Durkan to respect Deputy Collins, who is on her feet.

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, United Left)
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The 2011 programme for Government promised an extension of BreastCheck to those aged between 65 and 69 years. As part of the Government's reform plans for the health service it was promised to roll it out at the beginning of 2014 but this has not happened. It was also part of Fine Gael's commitments before the election in 2011. The Irish Cancer Society has been asking the Government to extend BreastCheck to women aged between 65 and 69 years in the HSE's national service plan for 2015. If the Government keeps its promise and extends BreastCheck to women in this age group, 43,670 women will be invited to attend for free screening each year. We know that for every 500 women screened, one life will be saved, so this will result in 87 women's lives being saved annually. In the Minister's constituency it will mean four women's lives will be saved, given that there are 2,100 women in the age group in the constituency, and in the Taoiseach's constituency five women's lives will be saved.

The Minister for Health has stated it is intended to extend the upper age range for BreastCheck to include those aged between 65 and 69 years as soon as possible and with available resources. Will the Minister make clear to the Irish Cancer Society and the 43,670 women between the age of 65 and 69 years and their families what extra resources, if any, are needed for the extension and the cost of these extra resources? What plan does the Government have to put in place these resources in order that the life-saving service will be provided in the HSE's service plan for 2015? I am glad the Minister for Finance is here because he has an input.

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for her submission. BreastCheck has been an effective method of identifying persons in a pre-cancer state who then have the potential of early intervention. It has been rolled out for various age cohorts in various geographic areas throughout the country. It is a progressive scheme. I have no doubt that as the scheme advances, the Minister for Health will take the Deputy's views into account. The resources of the health service must be used where they are most effective. There are many issues with regard to screening programmes, with which I am sure the Deputy is familiar. It must be treated very carefully before extensions are put in place. In general terms, what the Deputy has said is worth considering as soon as resources are available.

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, United Left)
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A promise was made by the Minister's party before the 2011 election, and it was part of the programme for Government, that the age group would be included in BreastCheck free screenings. Why has this not been done and why can the Minister not tell the Irish Cancer Society, the women in this age group and their families that he will seriously commit to the promise in the upcoming budget and provide for it in the HSE's service plan for 2015? The Minister pulls the strings, he knows this is needed and the Government promised it so why is he not here stating the Government will seriously commit to introducing it in the 2015 service plan? HIQA has stated it is the most effective method and recommended extending BreastCheck to women in this age group. The EU advisory committee on cancer prevention recommends asymptomatic women aged between 50 and 69 years should be screened every two to three years. All medical expertise states regular screening is the most effective way to prevent women dying from breast cancer. Will the Minister state the Government will seriously consider introducing this in the 2015 service plan?

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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The mandate of the Government runs for another year and a half so there is no breach of any commitment in the programme for Government arising from this.

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, United Left)
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It was supposed to be 2014.

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I understand the points made by the Deputy. When I was Minister for Health I brought forward the first breast screening programmes and I understand how they are organised. I will speak to the Minister for Health and tell him the Deputy's views on this issue.

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, United Left)
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What about the Government's views and the Department's views?