Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Amendments Nos. 1 and 12 are related and will be discussed together.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I move amendment No. 1:

In page 6, between lines 1 and 2, to insert the following:“ “ancient woodlands” means those woodlands which have had continuous tree cover since 1650 or before and which are most likely to have arisen naturally and to be descended from Ireland’s original forests;”.

It is important to protect our ancient woodlands for many reasons. The thrust of many of my amendments is that we need substantially to change our forestry model away from a purely industrial, commercially focused model to one that emphasises the importance of our native species and the need to expand and regenerate our native woodlands. The importance the public places on this was evident in the movement that developed around the campaign against the planned sell-off of the harvesting rights of Coillte. People came out, marched and protested to indicate their opposition to that plan for many reasons. When people became aware of the possibility of the sale of the harvesting rights to our public forests, they were concerned because they saw forestry and our native woodlands as tied up with our identity and as a symbol of our culture. They felt it had to be protected and that failure to do so would be a terrible dereliction of our duty to defend what is unique, important and special about our culture. They felt our native forests were critical to this.

We were a forest nation, as one of my environmental friends always tells me. The country was almost completely covered with oak and other native species. When the British came they destroyed our ancient woodlands. The amendment mentions the year 1650 as a benchmark date to identify the ancient woodlands because that is the year William Petty produced maps, which are the earliest recorded maps of what little was left of our ancient woodlands after their destruction by Oliver Cromwell. When this was explained to me, I did not know that William Petty gave us the word "petty". It is an interesting historical fact.

Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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One learns much through forestry.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is another contribution we have made to the global lexicon. It also demonstrates the historical, heritage and cultural importance of the matter and how it intersects with a defining moment in our history. Oliver Cromwell understood that as part of destroying resistance to the plantations, he had to fell the forests. This was to give the lands to the soldiers who fought with him but also as part of quelling resistance to his agenda. The imperative to protect our ancient woodlands is part of protecting what we were and are and what we hope to protect and maintain in terms of our culture and heritage. This is not just a nostalgic aspiration, although culture and heritage is not just about nostalgia but is critical. It is also very important in terms of the project of protecting, developing and improving sustainable forestry. The ancient woodlands are the seed banks of native Irish forestry species. If we do not protect these, we will lose the genetic foundations of Irish forestry.

One illustration of the consequences of disease is what happened in Gougane Barra recently, where a shocking decision was taken to cut down huge numbers of trees on the grounds that it was required to protect the trees from disease. We can discuss this later when we deal with the public consultation aspects of the Bill and the lack of sufficiently robust public consultation requirements regarding felling. I am informed by people who know more about these matters than I that there was no hard scientific proof of the existence of the disease. We can discuss it later. In so far as there has been some speculation as to how these diseases reach our trees and forests, a considerable belief exists that it is due to the fact that we are planting foreign, alien species that are not appropriate and make our forests more vulnerable to disease than they would be if we concentrated on native species that are perfectly suited to our climate and environment and that were, historically the trees of this country.

They are more resistant to disease and more resilient in the face of disease threats. If we fail to protect adequately the remnants and pockets of ancient woodlands, we threaten the genetic storehouse of the native species that are appropriate to Ireland and which we will need to expand if we are to move in a more sustainable direction in forestry should we become more vulnerable to diseases associated with imported species. That is another important reason we need a specific acknowledgement of the importance of ancient woodlands and specific management plans for those ancient woodlands that still exist. They exist in most other countries in Europe where there are specific management plans for them. Such plans do not exist here. We do not have specific plans to ensure the protection of our ancient woodlands. That is what these amendments call for.

I do not see why it poses any problem for the Government to accept these amendments. To do so would be in line with the priorities of many people in the country on the importance of our ancient woodlands. It would be in the interests of good and sustainable forest management as we move into the future. Those are the arguments. I hope the Minister of State will consider accepting the group of amendments.

Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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It is important to point out in relation to Gougane Barra that the decision was based on positive findings of disease. The decision was based on scientific advice and helped to prevent the spread of the disease. That was the reason the trees were taken down.

The importance of ancient woodlands was raised by Deputies on Committee Stage. These sites contribute to biodiversity and are important aspects of the historic and cultural landscape. The primary responsibility for the management of Ireland's nature conservation under national and European law is vested in the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, including the designation and protection of special areas of conservation, SACs, and natural heritage areas, NHAs. Many ancient woodlands are already designated as SACs or NHAs, including the magnificent oak woodlands in Killarney. If woodlands require additional statutory protection, they may be proposed for formal designation as an SAC or NHA. There is also a statutory provision under the European Communities (Birds and Natural Habitats) Regulations 2011 which allows the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht to enter into a management agreement with any owner, lessee, or occupier of a European site or other land of major importance to wild flora and fauna, which can include ancient woodlands.

As stated on Committee Stage, my Department actively encourages the creation of new native woodlands through the native woodland scheme. It has also provided significant funding in the past for the conservation of native woodlands. The Bill strengthens the basis for these actions and supports into the future. Section 5 lists the promotion and development of forests for the purposes of biodiversity, public amenity and recreation as one of the general functions of the Minister. Section 11(c)(ii) also requires the Minister, in performing his functions, to take further account of natural and semi-natural woodland. I take the view that the concerns raised are sufficiently addressed in the Bill. As such, I do not propose to accept amendments Nos. 1 and 12.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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We can discuss Gougane Barra a little more as we go through the Bill, particularly having regard to the issue of public consultation. This was not ancient woodland per sealthough it was an ancient woodland site. I have heard an argument from an international tree pathologist who has looked at the site and had been at it before the felling. She said there was no sign of this die-back at all. Some of the questions I have asked about this have been answered with references to things like aerial flights having seen from the air scorching which was indicative of the presence of this disease. I am not a scientist or sufficiently expert to know if these are signs. However, I have reported this to people who know more than I do and they said that is not conclusive evidence of anything. I have made further enquiries about precisely what the scientific evidence and adjudication was and how it would compare with other places where the disease has been found. I asked if the extent to which it was found here justified the huge felling we saw.

Before we get to discuss it in more detail as we go along, I will brief myself fully. I was not sure the issue would come up tonight. I am open minded about it. I am not an expert, but I have to take seriously concerns raised by people who are quite knowledgeable in the area and ensure we have proper justification for a very significant and, at one level, shocking act. I have been to Gougane Barra many times. It is a beautiful forest park and the fact that so much of it was cut down and is closed to the public is a very serious matter.

On the more substantial matter, while all of the things the Minister of State has said are true, this is about specifically including in a Bill on forestry an acknowledgement of the critical importance of ancient woodlands and putting in place specific management plans, which we do not have at present, directed toward their protection. It is not just a general conservation Bill but a specific forestry Bill.

Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I have stated already that it is the responsibility of the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Deenihan. The Bill strengthens the basis for actions and supports. I am quite happy that we are doing that and must disagree with the Deputy.