Dáil debates

Tuesday, 8 July 2014

3:35 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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All of us in this House hold the peace process dear. In particular since the conclusion of the Good Friday Agreement, there has been a genuine cross-party desire to maintain momentum towards peace and in particular, advancing political stability in Northern Ireland. I am sure the Taoiseach will agree that recent events have caused much concern. There is a genuine sense of drift in terms of both respect for institutions in Northern Ireland and for the ongoing momentum of the peace process itself and the institutions under the Good Friday Agreement.

The withdrawal of the leaders of Unionism from the talks process relating to the past, flags and parading is in many ways a sign of profound political failure. The fact that the decision of an independent statutory parades commission has caused the First Minister and others to leave the talks and begin a graduated response of protest raises a number of fundamental questions. The first is the manner in which parading is adjudicated within Northern Ireland. Are both governments now looking afresh at that even in the context of the Haass talks where the emerging momentum had been to move parading into the offices of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister to decide and arbitrate upon and away from an independent parades commission? The second question is the political recognition of the primacy of the rule of law, in other words, that leading politicians in Northern Ireland, irrespective of whether an adjudication comes from an independent institution or not, feel free on any whim to protest at that and remove themselves from a talks process or indeed from the North-South Ministerial Council last week. It does not just involve Unionist leaders. We saw this in terms of the PSNI and policing. When Deputy Adams was arrested, Sinn Féin said that its support for policing was now questionable or could be threatened if he was not released. That also happened on a previous occasion when somebody was arrested. This idea of the political recognition of the primacy of law is central to political stability in Northern Ireland and I ask the Taoiseach to comment on that.

I know the Taoiseach has had meetings with various parties. He has had talks with the British Prime Minister, David Cameron. Is it the view of the Government that the Taoiseach will become re-engaged in a hands-on way with the process in Northern Ireland, particularly in the context of the talks on the past, parading, flags and such like in order to inject fresh momentum into a process which has illustrated a dangerous sense of drift in recent years?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Martin for his comments and question. I am very concerned about the escalation of events in Northern Ireland in the recent past. In the course of one day last week, we saw Unionist withdrawal from the Parades Commission, the all-party talks and the North-South Ministerial Council. This has very serious implications. I note that the Unionist parties announced a graduated response, whatever is meant by that. The first indication was in respect of non-attendance at the North-South Ministerial Council. It is true to say that the entire House should be concerned about the potential for an escalation to conflict and unwanted violence on 12 July with particular reference to the flash point that could occur at the shops on the Ardoyne Road.

I spoke to Mr. Cameron on Sunday and discussed this matter with him by telephone for a number of minutes in regard to the need for both governments to be very vigilant as to what contingency plans might be put in place. I advised the Prime Minister that we will send over senior personnel from Departments here to London this week to engage with their counterparts. Yesterday evening, I spoke to David Ford of the Alliance Party in respect of justice matters in Northern Ireland. He is obviously quite concerned about this. Last evening I also met the SDLP and Sinn Féin to get their views on the need for rational thinking and clear heads in respect of the next period and the implications of what lies ahead in September and October.

The Prime Minister, for his part, has made it clear that while he and his government are supportive of the Good Friday Agreement and the process that the Executive and the parties in Northern Ireland had negotiated and worked on before eventually being given devolved authority for a range of activities, the challenge is to make that system work.

I regret very much that the Unionist parties, both the DUP and the UUP, appear to have moved from a position of centrality on the Agreement to a point somewhere right of that. I also note that some of the Unionist groupings have called for peaceful measures this weekend and I hope that will be the outcome of this weekend's parades and marches.

I agree with the Deputy that when a Parades Commission, with its independent and statutory authority, makes a decision, it should be complied with. The parties I spoke to yesterday - the SDLP and Sinn Féin - both indicated that they would have been supportive of the commission irrespective of the decision it made. This weekend has the potential for serious conflict. I hope that calmer minds will see to it that that does not happen. The PSNI, for its part, has said it will implement the law in so far as the Parades Commission decision is concerned.

In so far as the involvement of the British Government is concerned, I have had requests to make contact with the US as well in regard to maintaining a focus on having the Agreement implemented in full and pushed forward. I thank the Deputy for his question. For now, we are conscious of the potential implications of this. We are in contact with the British Government and the Northern Ireland parties and I hope those involved will see to it that there is no escalation of violence or outrageous behaviour, as has happened on a number of occasions. It is potentially very serious.

3:45 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. There is a need for him and the British Prime Minister to meet urgently and then, in consultation with the parties in Northern Ireland, to draw up a framework to create fresh momentum in the political situation in the North and create a new agenda to move the process onwards.

A community relations council report to the Assembly this week was disturbing in respect of the revelations - if one could call them that - concerning the significant underachievement in education, health and social areas among a significant proportion of the population of west and north Belfast, particularly among specific groupings. The statistic are damning and it is worrying with regard to the future for young people - young males, in particular - in those areas in the context of their having a sense of engagement with society and a sense of future and ownership in that society in respect of education participation, employment and so on.

Looking at the medium term, if we get over this difficult phase, there is an urgent need on behalf of both governments to up their game in the level of their engagement and to create a new agenda to drive forward stability within Northern Ireland that involves a socioeconomic dimension as well. I put that to the Taoiseach in good faith.

Have the Prime Minister and the Taoiseach made it clear to all the political leaders in Northern Ireland that they cannot pick and choose in the context of political recognition of the primacy of the rule of law, whether it is the decisions of the PSNI in prosecuting particular cases or the Parades Commission in the independent adjudication it may make on particular parades, and that it is not on for the First Minister or the Deputy First Minister to decide when they show confidence in those institutions and when they do not? Their performance in recent times has undermined public confidence in shared institutions. It took a great deal of work to build them up, and what can the public expect if the leaders are not behaving in a responsible and reasonable manner?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I agree that in some cases there seems to be a feeling of utter hopelessness and despair about where this now appears to be headed. For that reason, I asked the Prime Minister to consider speaking to the First Minister. He was to speak to the Secretary of State but I cannot confirm whether he spoke to the DUP leader.

I note the report the Deputy mentioned about the implications for young people regarding education and so on. There is also a decision to be made in respect of welfare reform which could lead to a substantial cutback in finance for facilities of up to €650 million, which clearly has implications for the Executive and the way it goes about its business. That was partly the reason additional moneys were put in under the PEACE IV agreement arising from the Presidency last year - to deal with the sensitive communities mentioned by the Deputy.

I do not have any difficulty arranging a meeting with the British Prime Minister if that is necessary. I agreed with him on Sunday that we would both continue to monitor this closely from Dublin and London and to engage with the parties, and I committed myself to that in the meetings and discussions I had yesterday. I have not spoken directly to the First Minister. Obviously, I recommended that the Prime Minister engage with him in the first instance, but it is a case of hoping to get through this weekend without any escalation of violence and making contingency arrangements for what is best for the future. This is a sensitive period and, clearly, the period ahead between September and Christmas is crucial to putting the peace process and the move to fully implement the Good Friday Agreement back on track.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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There is widespread speculation that the Taoiseach will appoint the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan, to the position of European Commissioner. I will not ask him to comment on that today, but there a number of unanswered questions about the Minister's suitability. Recently, in what is a feature of the Government, he appointed seven former Fine Gael and Labour Party councillors to State boards, and he is also mired in controversy when it comes to the planning process. He appointed as deputy chairperson of An Bord Pleanála an individual who was the former technical director of RPS consulting engineers, a private company that framed a series of controversial projects which have come before An Bord Pleanála. The Minister also extended this person's term of office. This individual voted to approve contentious projects on which RPS Group was a consultant, which had been rejected by An Bord Pleanála inspectors. These include an apartment development in Dún Laoghaire and a sewage treatment scheme in County Donegal. He also approved a controversial wind farm at Cullenagh, County Laois. These clearly raise questions of a conflict of interest. RPS Group consultants also advised EirGrid to install overhead pylons, and they were also among the consultants employed at a cost of €85 million by Uisce Éireann, in which two former senior RPS Group executives now hold senior positions. Is it not the case that unless these matters are clarified, it would be inappropriate for the Taoiseach to nominate the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to the position of Commissioner?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Government has changed the process of appointing State board chairpersons, and those who wish to can apply through the publicjobs.iewebsite for consideration for appointment to State boards.

For the first time since the foundation of the State, persons deemed appropriate for appointment to State boards go before the relevant Oireachtas committee to bring forward the experience they offer to the board in question. It is a case of appointing to boards people with a measure of experience.

3:55 pm

Photo of Michael Healy-RaeMichael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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Who are those in Fine Gael-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy, please, stay quiet?

Photo of Michael Healy-RaeMichael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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I am sorry, but it is a fact.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Sinn Féin appointed the chair of the advisory board of safefood, Ms Lynn Boylan, a very good candidate, to do the job. I will not comment on the basis of the Deputy's first question.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I thought cronyism was dead.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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That is not good enough. The Minister, Deputy Phil Hogan appointed the former technical director of a private company to a pivotal and important position. When he took office, one of the first things he did was to close the inquiry the former Minister, Mr. John Gormley, had initiated into planning irregularities and alleged planning corruption in seven local council areas. In County Donegal a senior planner has made serious allegations and the Minister has been made aware of extremely serious planning irregularities in County Wicklow, including the highly controversial M11 rezoning decision. A range of planning debacles and controversies surround Uisce Éireann and the Poolbeg incinerator. When a European Commissioner is nominated, there is serious scrutiny of his or her suitability at EU level. Should there not be the same scrutiny in the Dáil? The Taoiseach talks about a new way of doing business, transparency and accountability. Will he facilitate a process in order that any nominee appointed to such a position would answer questions in the Dáil or before a committee before being sent to the European Union?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Anybody nominated by any country to serve as a Commissioner of the European Union must attend the European Parliament for sessions lasting three or four hours on his or her suitability and appropriateness for appointment. For the first time ever, the Deputy's party has a number of representatives there.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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We are talking about here.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Bring back John Gormley.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Whoever is nominated as European Commissioner, these representatives will have the opportunity to ask questions in the fora they represent and where the Commissioner will represent the country, that is, at the European Parliament.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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But not here.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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All MEPs, over 750, will have the opportunity during the three or four hour session to ask questions.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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What about Deputies and Senators?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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When somebody is appointed from here, the Deputy can have whatever questions he likes asked by his party's members in the European forum.

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, United Left)
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I raise a very serious issue raised by community groups across the board regarding the privatisation of what is left of the local and community development programme, LCDP. The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan, has begun the process of tendering in the private sector for the provision of community development services to be sold in 31 lots for between €30 million and €40 million. There has been a deliberate and complete absence of consultation with the workers and community organisations which will be affected. The Minister has cited concerns about commercial sensitivities to justify this. He has also told the House that he was legally required to put the service contracts out to tender under Directive No. 2004/18/EC. This directive has been repealed and the new EU Directive No. 2014/24/EU makes it clear that member states are free to "organise social services in a way that does not entail the conclusion of public contracts". Why is Ireland the only EU member state taking this action? Will the Taoiseach instruct the Minister to come to the Dáil with a statement outlining the legal basis for his action? Will the Government abandon this crazy idea?

I raise the particular concerns of organisations working with and within the Traveller community. The National Traveller Partnership which represents a coalition of 14 local and three national Traveller organisations is asking the Government to take the specific conditions affecting Travellers into account and ring-fence existing Traveller funding. The partnership wants the Government to pay this funding, either through the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government or through Pobal for specific community development and social inclusion programmes managed by the National Traveller Partnership and to draw up a service level agreement with the Department or Pobal to deliver such a specific programme. State agencies and local authorities have a deplorable record in dealing with issues facing the Traveller community and there is discrimination within society. During the past six years of austerity this most vulnerable section of the community has borne the worst cuts, with an 80% reduction in funding and a 40% cut to the Traveller-specific projects of the LCDP, on top of the general cuts to LCDP funding. Will the Taoiseach take on board the points made by the National Traveller Partnership? Will he invite its representatives to talk to them about their concerns? Will he get the Minister to deal with the issue before he might be moved to the European Union?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Traveller community programmes are important because they have always been tailored to the particular needs and circumstances of the Traveller groups with which they deal. I have seen a number of them working. I am sure the Minister can take into account the five points raised by the Deputy. This is not the privatisation of such work but the opportunity for existing and other companies to tender for the programmes and work involved. The tender process is to conclude on 11 July. The reason for inviting companies to submit tenders for the work is to ensure there will be an effective output and that public money is spent most effectively. Companies will tender for the work programmes in the different localities around the country; the tenders will be examined and the programmes of work will be awarded to the relevant companies. The process will be published, ensuring accountability and transparency. There was a process of consultation; there is now a process of seeking tenders which must be examined and used as the basis for decisions. It is not privatisation.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Yes, it is. Multinationals will come in.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There was much scaremongering in abolishing Leader groups and voluntary organisations which was without foundation.

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, United Left)
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The consultation process did not involve the people in the community partnerships who will be affected or the people working in the National Traveller Partnership but at a different level. The Minister, Deputy Phil Hogan, made no attempt to listen to the workers' concerns about their jobs and futures and the future of the local development companies. The Taoiseach did not answer the question about the new directive, Directive 2014/24/EU, which makes it clear that member states do not have to pursue this process. If that is the case, like many others here, I would like the Minister to defend his position in railroading this procedure into community projects. It is privatisation; there is no other word for it. Any community development worker and any National Traveller Partnership worker will tell the Taoiseach that it is tendering for community projects. Will the Taoiseach take on board the concerns of the National Traveller Partnership which has voiced its concerns succinctly and eloquently to me and others who attended last week's press conference? Two Labour Party Deputies were present and I hope they will row in behind the call for the National Traveller Partnership to meet the Taoiseach and the Minister because nothing happens in the Dáil unless the Taoiseach intervenes to mark the cards of his Ministers.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will examine the case made by the National Traveller Partnership. There is no reason the existing companies cannot win and be awarded the work. They already have experience of doing it.

Photo of Róisín ShortallRóisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Independent)
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Then why is the Government seeking tenders?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is why, rather than continuously rolling it over each year, there is a process of tendering for the work. It is competitive and good in the interests of getting the best for taxpayers' money.

Photo of Sandra McLellanSandra McLellan (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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It is not meant to be privatised.

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, United Left)
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It is privatisation of community centres.

4:05 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is the privatisation of the community sector.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is as privatising as one can get.

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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It is the privatisation of volunteers.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am sure the programmes, companies and communities involved will hone their work to best effect. It is about getting the best output from the moneys put in. For that reason, the tender process has been introduced. Otherwise, it will lead to all of the old stories of how it is that this is transferred each year to company X or company Y.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Will the Taoiseach meet them?

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, United Left)
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Will the Taoiseach hear what they have to say?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There is no reason the companies doing the job cannot be awarded the work as a result of their tenders on this occasion either.

Photo of Sandra McLellanSandra McLellan (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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It is Fine Gael doing it again.