Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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At present, there is a proposal to take vocational training opportunities scheme, VTOS, training places from Tallaght and give them to Balbriggan. As the Minister of State is aware, Tallaght has one of the highest rates of unemployment among those between the ages of 18 and 24 in the country. I am requesting that the decision to transfer the training places to which I refer to Balbriggan be put on hold. There is no logic to what is being done. The decision does not make sense, particularly from a financial point of view. Tallaght was more affected than any other area by the collapse in the building trade. The latter provided employment for many young people in Tallaght and these individuals require help in order that they might retrain and upskill.

These vocational training opportunities scheme places are very important and are part of this upskilling and employment-finding process. Under these changes Balbriggan will now have two VTOS places for every 1,000 residents while Tallaght and Walkinstown will have less than one for every 1,000 residents. Where is the logic or fairness in that? Why does Balbriggan deserve more than Tallaght and Walkinstown? It is not a case of being against resources going to Balbriggan, but where is the logic in this process? Who has made this decision? It is an ill-thought-out decision and will have a very negative effect on Tallaght and Clondalkin. I hope the Minister of State will reconsider the decision, intervene personally and do the right thing.

Why close the operation in St. Dominic's National School where, I understand, the rent is €11,000 per year and is negotiable with the school principal? Why send 20 VTOS places to Balbriggan with the added cost of premises, resources and teaching hours? It has been suggested to me by staff that those 20 VTOS places are equivalent to two classes at 15 teaching hours per week. If we multiply that by a 32 weeks, that is, the school year, and an average gross pay of €50 per hour it amounts to €48,500 to be paid to teachers. These are all extra costs for the education and training board because we already have teachers in the Tallaght setting. There does not appear to me to be any saving in Tallaght apart from the €11,000 in rent. In early March this year a third computer room was set up in St. Dominic's for VTOS along with electrical and data points. There will now be an extra cost for the computers, fitting out the rooms and the move to the enterprise centre in Cookstown along with data protection and so on.

I have been informed by the Department how much all of this will cost but I have been quoted a figure of €10,000. Furthermore, the lease on the enterprise centre is up in two years. Again, everything will probably have to be moved. How much will that cost? What is the point in moving from St. Dominic's? The decision to close St. Dominic's and move the extra 20 Tallaght VTOS places elsewhere seems to have been made recently. Reference was made to putting in the electrical points in during March. Otherwise, why fund a third computer room in March this year?

I understand from the Department that the decision has been made purely for financial reasons. However, what I have outlined to the Minister of State today is that this does not add up. Why are we doing this? I look forward to the reply from the Minister of State and I hope he has looked into the situation. I hope he has seen the common sense of my remarks on the matter. Tallaght cannot afford to lose any resources. It is not a case of taking them away from Balbriggan. The resources are based in the area at the moment and we cannot afford to lose them. Will the Minister of State reconsider this foolish decision?

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising the matter as it provides me with the opportunity to outline to the House the position in respect of the VTOS programme in St. Dominic's National School, Tallaght.

The vocational training opportunities scheme is a second-chance education and training programme for unemployed adults in receipt of certain Department of Social Protection payments. The courses are full-time and can last up to two years. VTOS students can pursue subjects in the junior and leaving certificate examinations or modules certified by Quality and Qualifications Ireland at levels 3 to 6 under the national framework of qualifications. Learners participating on VTOS courses receive a training allowance along with meal and travel allowances and they may be entitled to child care support.

Currently almost 6,000 people are availing of second-chance education under VTOS throughout the country and VTOS places are operated by the education and training boards from funding provided by SOLAS, the new further education and training authority. The main objective of SOLAS is to develop, fund and oversee an integrated further education and training sector. The former FÁS training centres and the 800 associated staff will transfer on a gradual basis to the recently formed education and training boards. These bodies will be responsible for the delivery of an integrated further education and training system. That transfer process commenced on 1 January this year and will be completed by the end of this year.

One of the first major tasks carried out by SOLAS was the development of Ireland's first ever five-year strategy for further education and training, launched on 12 May. This has been developed following consultation with the key stakeholders and has set out a proposed roadmap for the further education and training sector in response to the needs and opportunities for the short, medium and longer term. It will seek to ensure the provision of high-quality further education and training programmes which are responsive to the needs of learners and the requirements of a changed and changing economy. The Dublin and Dún Laoghaire Education and Training Board is a statutory body with significant autonomy with responsibility for education and training provision in the region. The ETB has 510 approved VTOS places and the allocation of these places to centres under its remit is a matter for the board. Following the amalgamation of the former Dublin and Dún Laoghaire vocational education committees, the establishment of the Dublin and Dún Laoghaire Education and Training Board and the merger of the former FÁS services, the board carried out a review, as required, of the provision of all adult education services. In considering VTOS places the board concluded that some 80 places were available in Tallaght at adult education services and a further 40 places were available nearby in Greenhills College. By comparison, Balbriggan, one of the fastest-growing areas in western Europe, only had 20 places. The board then made the decision to increase the available places in Balbriggan by 20, up to 40 leaving 100 places available in the general Tallaght area. Education and training boards are expected to manage their resources to provide the best service for all areas under their remit and that ultimately will lead to changes in provision in particular areas from time to time.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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I am unsure whether the Minister of State has listened to anything that I have said this afternoon in respect of the reasoning behind this decision. The Minister of State said it was a matter for the board. What is the point of coming to the House if that is the case? Is the Minister of State listening to me?

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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Yes, I am listening.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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Was the Minister of State listening earlier when I was asking him to outline the reasons why the board has done this? The Minister of State said the ETB is an independent board and manages its own resources to provide the best service and so on. The Minister of State outlined that Tallaght and Walkinstown have certain positions. He also said that Balbriggan is a growing area and so on. I put it to the Minister of State that what the board is proposing, with the compliance of the Minister of State, allows for one place per 1,000 residents while Balbriggan gets double the amount that Tallaght gets. Does that make any sense?

Reference was made to saving money. Where are the savings? Will the Minister of State let me know where the savings will come from? All the Minister of State is throwing at me is that there is an independent board which has made a decision. I want to know why the board has made the decision. There is no logic to what the Minister of State has said today. I cannot go back to the people of Tallaght and state that the ETB is an independent board and has made its decision. On what grounds did the board make the decision? I do not know because the Minister of State has not told me and I am unsure whether the Minister of State knows himself.

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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I did tell Deputy Crowe but he was not listening.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister of State knows the reason. Is that so? Is it because Balbriggan is the fastest-growing area in the country. Is that the reason?

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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It is the fastest-growing area in western Europe.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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Does the Minister of State know the fastest-growing area in respect of unemployment in the country? Young people who have no hope at the moment are living in the Tallaght and Walkinstown areas and this is one of the only chances they have for retraining and reskilling. I have put that to the Minister of State. Many of them come from the construction industry. The Minister of State must take on board some of these ideas. It is simply not good enough.

Will the Minister of State listen, please? Will he please look at this again? There is no logic to what the board is doing. I accept that the board is independent and so on but the Minister of State has a role. The Minister of State should be championing these areas. If it is a case of a shortage of resources in Balbriggan then the Minister of State should pull them from some other area. He should not pull them out of this area. It is unfair on the people in that area.

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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I did tell Deputy Crowe the reason.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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Perhaps the Minister of State will outline it to me again paragraph by paragraph because I cannot see it.

Derek Keating (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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Sorry Deputy. One speaker, please.

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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Then perhaps Deputy Crowe was not listening.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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I was listening and I read the Minister's reply while he was speaking.

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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Great. Well done to him. I told Deputy Crowe that the reason was that the board is responsible for the allocation of resources within its region. That power has been conferred upon the board by legislation passed in this House. The board also has significant representation. Local authority representatives as across the region have a serious role to play in determining the policy within the board in conjunction with the management of that board. The board has decided that the best use of its resources is to take 20 of the 120 places that are available in Tallaght and Greenhills and allocate them to a region that in its opinion is badly served by VTOS places.

That is the board's remit. It has-----

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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It is badly served by the vocational training opportunities scheme, VTOS, in terms of places.

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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There were 20 places allocated in the whole of Balbriggan before this change was made. There are now 40. Given the demographic information available from the Central Statistics Office, there is a dearth of VTOS places in Balbriggan.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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Those figures do not add up, as I have told the Minister of State already.

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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That is the Deputy's opinion.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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Balbriggan has double the number in Tallaght. Where is the logic in this?

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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That is the Deputy's opinion.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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That is not my opinion; these are the figures I have been given.

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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By whom?

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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I have examined the population figures.

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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I trust the board and its management which has significant experience in this regard. It has not just been doing this work of allocating scarce VTOS places since last October but for many years. We conferred on all education and training boards, ETBs, autonomy to make these decisions in the best interests of the people they served.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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Therefore, the Minister of State's hands are tied. What was the point of even coming to the Chamber?

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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I have given the Deputy the logical reasons for the ETB's decision and do not see how we can contradict it. Removing 20 of 120 places and allocating them to an area with population that, in the ETB's opinion, is rapidly increasing is a reasonable decision. I stand over it on the basis of the expertise and wisdom to be found in the ETB which render it well able to make such decisions.