Dáil debates

Tuesday, 6 May 2014

Ceisteanna - Questions (Resumed)

World Economic Forum

5:05 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach the bilateral meetings he had while attending the Davos World Economic Forum and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3515/14]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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2. To ask the Taoiseach the business leaders he met during the Davos World Economic Forum, the issues that were discussed and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3516/14]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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3. To ask the Taoiseach if he will provide details of the meetings he had with President Barroso at Davos, the issues he discussed with him and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4827/14]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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4. To ask the Taoiseach if Irish aid was discussed at any of his meetings in Davos and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4829/14]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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5. To ask the Taoiseach if youth unemployment was discussed at any of his meetings in Davos and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4830/14]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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6. To ask the Taoiseach if Irish banking and in particular the sale of banks was discussed at any of the meetings he attended with either business leaders or political leaders at Davos and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4831/14]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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7. To ask the Taoiseach if the European Stability Mechanism was discussed at meetings he attended either with business leaders or political leaders in Davos and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4832/14]

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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8. To ask the Taoiseach if he met President Barroso in Davos and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7490/14]

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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9. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on meetings he had while attending the World Economic Forum at Davos. [7491/14]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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10. To ask the Taoiseach if he will provide details of the meetings he had at Davos. [8928/14]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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11. To ask the Taoiseach if he met President Barroso at Davos, the topics they discussed and if he will make a statement on the matter. [8929/14]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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12. To ask the Taoiseach if he discussed unemployment and growth at the Davos World Economic Forum and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16188/14]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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13. To ask the Taoiseach if he discussed banking and sovereign debt at the Davos World Economic Forum and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16189/14]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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14. To ask the Taoiseach if he discussed trade and services across Europe at the Davos World Economic Forum and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16190/14]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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15. To ask the Taoiseach if he held private meetings with counterparts at the Davos World Economic Forum and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16191/14]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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16. To ask the Taoiseach if he held any discussions on Ireland's housing and property sector at the Davos World Economic Forum and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16192/14]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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17. To ask the Taoiseach if he held any discussions on the transatlantic trade and investment partnership at the Davos World Economic Forum and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16193/14]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 17, inclusive, together.

I travelled to Davos, Switzerland to attend the annual meeting of the World Economic Forum from 22 to 24 January. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, also attended the forum. The World Economic Forum annual meeting is attended by political and business leaders and heads of international organisations from across the globe. The theme of this year's meeting was "The reshaping of the World; Consequences for Society, Politics and Business". On Wednesday evening, 22 January, I attended a function hosted by Professor Klaus Schwab, executive chairman of the forum, that was also attended by other Heads of Government and the business council of the World Economic Forum. I participated in a number of formal events on the programme on current global economic matters. These included an interactive lunch session on the Thursday entitled, The New Europe Context, which focused on priorities for fiscal and monetary reform and drivers of global competitiveness. Later that day I took part in a high level plenary session entitled, Closing Europe's Competitiveness Gap, which examined how Europe's leaders were transitioning from crisis response mode towards a long-term strategy for competitiveness and growth. Other panellists in the discussion included José Manuel Barroso, President of the European Commission; Angel Gurría, secretary general of the OECD; Frederik Reinfeldt, Prime Minister of Sweden; Fabrizio Saccomanni, Italy's then Minister of Economy and Finance; and Joe Kaeser, president and CEO of Siemens, Germany. I did not have a scheduled meeting with President Barroso at the World Economic Forum other than a brief encounter with him, with the other panellists at the preparatory session in advance of the live panel debate on global competitiveness.

I participated in a high level discussion session on Friday, 24 January on the prevailing global themes for 2014, which included the political situation in the Middle East, global financial issues and climate change. During my time at the World Economic Forum I also held several bilateral meetings. With the Minister for Finance, I met US Secretary of the Treasury, Jacob Lew. I briefed Secretary Lew on recent positive economic developments in Ireland, including Ireland's successful return to the bond markets. I referred to the medium-term economic strategy published in December and the Government's commitment to continuing the reforms in the public finances, the financial sector and the real economy. We discussed European banking issues, including the proposed deal on a banking union and corporate tax reform. I reiterated Ireland's commitments to the OECD base erosion and profit shifting, BEPS, process and maintaining a competitive, transparent and predictable corporate tax regime underpinned by statute. Secretary Lew expressed some confidence that a comprehensive US tax reform deal might be achieved this year. We also discussed the current economic situation in the United States. We noted the ongoing negotiations between the European Union and the United States on the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, TTIP, and that good progress had been reported at the third round TTIP negotiations which had taken place in December.

While in Davos, I met individually with leaders of several major multinational firms from a variety of fields, principally in the high tech and financial services areas. This was my third visit to the forum and the first since Ireland had successfully exited the EU-IMF programme of assistance. I was keen to emphasise Ireland's pro-business and world-class research and development environment, as well as our young, well educated and flexible workforce as key elements that made Ireland an excellent place in which to invest. On Thursday evening, 23 January, I participated in an event attended by senior executives of major international companies which was organised by IDA Ireland to promote Ireland as an excellent business location. I acknowledged the vital contribution that many of the companies represented had made to Ireland and the economy and urged other guests to seriously consider Ireland as a potential location for investment or expansion.

My principal focus at the forum was on business and investment in Ireland. I did not have an opportunity to discuss Irish Aid or our overseas development programme in any great detail at the sessions and meetings which I attended. While I frequently referred to Ireland's path to economic recovery and growth, I did not discuss specifics relating to the Irish property sector during my time at the forum. The topic of trade and services across Europe formed part of the overall discussions on EU competitiveness and I discussed the prospect of expanding our trade in services with several of the companies that I met.

Unemployment, in particular youth unemployment and the measures being undertaken to address it, was a constant theme throughout the forum, particularly in the discussions on competitiveness. I stressed at every opportunity that jobs and growth creation were the Government's key priorities, matching the priorities agreed in Europe through the EU 2020 strategy.

I also emphasised that the key to tackling youth unemployment is the creation of an environment for a strong economic recovery by promoting competitiveness and productivity.

5:15 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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At the outset, the House should note that most of these questions were tabled four months ago but are only now up for answer. The Taoiseach would have to agree that this is entirely unsatisfactory. It is partly because the Taoiseach has halved the Taoiseach's questions periods. That was a decision of this Government. Traditionally, before this Dáil, questions to An Taoiseach were answered twice a week. Now they are answered once a week. Also, when the Taoiseach cancels some sessions he does not reschedule them. I accept that he has to cancel the question sessions sometimes, for obvious reasons, but they are never rescheduled. Every Opposition party and group has asked for this to change and for something to be done about it but the Taoiseach seems to be quite happy to let the questions lie, unanswered, for months on end. It is unsatisfactory from a parliamentary point of view.

Davos this year included the ECB President, Mr. Draghi, making a major statement about the European economy and financial system. According to his analysis, the fundamental reasons for the improved economic situation in member states are the general improvement in the international economy and critically, low ECB interest rates. The recent OECD review has confirmed this, although the Government spun the report in order to ignore this key point. President Draghi also said, however, that the recovery is still extremely fragile and that there are major down side risks. Why are we not addressing those risks and why do we not have any proposals to address them? Why is Europe being left with policies that were agreed two years ago, which have not succeeded in rejuvenating the eurozone economy?

President Draghi has confirmed that members of the ECB council want the Central Bank of Ireland to sell its holdings of Irish bonds earlier than was announced last year. This would end the entire claimed benefit of the promissory note deal and lead us to losing billions of euro. The minutes of the ECB meeting around the time of the promissory note deal explicitly stated that the ECB noted the arrangement between our Government and the Central Bank of Ireland. Has the Taoiseach made representations to President Draghi on this issue? Has the Government done anything in response to this particular request from members of the ECB? Has the Irish Government asked the ECB to return profits on Irish bonds to us? This is being done for Greece but not for Ireland. Has the Taoiseach formally tabled this issue? I have asked this question on numerous occasions but the Taoiseach keeps avoiding and fudging an answer. Has he raised that issue? Greece got such a deal and accommodation from the ECB and Ireland should too.

In the context of the Davos meetings with major international companies, the Taoiseach has already said that corporation tax and taxation structures were discussed, as were the very important policy pillars that lead to companies investing in Ireland. The foreign direct investment side of the economy has been the most resilient throughout the entire economic crash because of long-established policies not just on corporation tax but also on investment in education, research and development, which has been transformed in the past decade and has been a key factor in attracting inward investment. I have no doubt that those companies would have placed a strong emphasis on education, research and development. How does that square with the cuts that the Government has implemented in education across the board? The ending of postgraduate grants, in particular, is having a very severe impact on the numbers taking up postgraduate work and going further into research and development. The lack of any secure tenure or career options for people in research into the future also impacts on our overall environment for research investment.

Finally, on corporation tax, the OECD and so forth - what is our bottom line? The common consolidated corporate tax base, CCCTB, has implications for foreign direct investment. A Department of Finance analysis some years ago indicated that it could be far more harmful to our foreign direct investment strategy than changing the rate of tax itself. We need a stronger position and greater clarity from Government on that issue. The Government has agreed to discuss it and to facilitate the processing of the file on CCCTB. It could have a very significant impact on our attractiveness as a base for inward investment.

Was there any discussion at Davos about the banks themselves, their activities, the performance of their members and so forth? There is much talk about competitiveness but it seems to impact on the citizen only, in the form of new taxes, cuts and so forth. The citizen has no sense that the elites within the banking system and those who made decisions in auditing firms and so on are having the same burden placed upon them as the ordinary citizen during this crisis. That is the genuine view out there. People see large companies getting significant write-downs on debt but for those in mortgage arrears, there is very little comfort in many cases. In the most recent case of the IBRC sell-off, mortgages have been sold to an entity that does not have to adhere to the code of practice. The Governor of the Central Bank told the Taoiseach that he did not want to go ahead. There is no protection at all for those mortgage holders and their situation is very uncertain indeed. One of the problems with big gatherings such as Davos is they are conducted at a certain macro level but they do not really get what the citizen on the street has to deal with.

Finally, I put it to the Taoiseach that the real crisis in developed economies in the West is the suppression of middle incomes. We are looking at a shrinking middle class across the eurozone. Competitiveness is a code word for downward pressure on wages across the board in the forlorn hope that we can compete with China, India and other very low-wage countries. A fundamental change and reappraisal of where developed economies want to go in the future is required. Our direction is very unclear and that is giving rise to political developments across Europe which do not auger well in terms of how Europe evolves into the future.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Martin got through a long list of questions there. I have seen many Taoiseach's questions sessions over the years and they used to be worse. When they were held on a Tuesday and a Wednesday, repetition was frequent because the range of questions applicable to the Taoiseach of the day is not as broad as to other Ministers. Deputy Martin has strayed into a whole load of detail here about individual Ministries. I have said to Deputies Martin and Adams previously that I do not have a problem with them tabling a priority question to me each week so that they can raise matters of immediate importance. It is a bit ridiculous that I am answering questions now about events that occurred some months ago. I have made that offer to Deputies Martin, Adams and others and if they want to take it up I would be happy to respond to them.

The issue of the ECB and the selling off of material here is a matter for the Governor of the Central Bank and he has already made his position very clear on this. While the ECB noted the arrangement in respect of Ireland, it is a matter for the Governor here and he has been quite clear on that. On corporation tax and the policy pillars, Deputy Martin is well aware of the situation that applies here in so far as the legislative structure is very much behind the digital advances that are being made. Companies that operate here or in other countries move through several jurisdictions before the tax regimes and facilities in different jurisdictions kick in. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, ended the State-less concept here in last year's budget because of potentially damaging perceptions and he made that perfectly clear.

We have been very much up-front in the leading group in saying one does need an international response to an international issue. That is why the OECD was deemed to be the appropriate body. Ireland has been very much up-front with the OECD and the European Commission in all queries that come before it. That is the way we want to be in order that when there is an international response to this international issue, Ireland will play - and is playing - its full part in that regard.

Foreign direct investment has been a cornerstone of investment policy here. The Deputy is aware of Ireland's attractions, including the corporation tax rate, the talent pool, the track record of Irish people in so many areas and our capacity to deal with whatever technological challenges arise.

As regards whether we have a bottom line, we will await the outcome of the OECD's analysis and deliberations with various countries and will move on from there. Ireland did not favour the common consolidated corporate tax base because of our proximity to Britain. It was allowed on the agenda for the first meeting of the Irish Presidency under the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan. Countries that wish to pursue it can proceed with their deliberations, although I am not sure it has gone far. The reality is different from the perception of what it might actually mean.

I did not have discussions about individual banks here with the Minister. Perhaps he had discussions about changes in the structure of and the health and recapitalisation of banks and our belief they could measure up in the stress tests to be taken later this year.

The Deputy said "competitiveness" was a code word, but the mandate given to the Government was to sort out the public finances and get the country working. We have made this perfectly clear in a whole range of areas in which the tax system has been used to provide an opportunity and an incentive to create employment. For example, the reduction in VAT from 13.5% to 9% stabilised the hospitality sector, but it also allowed many thousands of jobs to be created. We hope this can continue in the future. It was also evident in the decision, after listening to the industry, to abolish the travel tax. Ryanair responded by committing to bringing an extra 1 million passengers to Ireland this year through various airports.

In that sense, I have tried to focus not just on foreign direct investment but also on stimulating Enterprise Ireland's work on the export capacity of Irish business. Through An Action Plan for Jobs which is published quarterly by the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton there is a genuine attempt to ease the path and remove blockages to doing business. That is why the Micro-Finance Agency was introduced, with the partial loan and credit guarantee scheme. It is important for business to understand that in 50% of cases in which business plans were not deemed to be appropriate by the banks the requests for credit were overturned by the Credit Review Office. Therefore, if a small or medium-sized enterprise is turned down by a bank, there is a 50:50 chance of it being approved on appeal to the Credit Review Office.

There are various incentives and schemes for young people, in particular, who always have the problem of not being able to get a job without experience, while they cannot get experience with having a job. Some schemes have been more successful than others. It is not just about competitiveness which is a fundamental element in the attraction of investment but also about building confidence in order that people can see things are beginning to improve. That is evident in different parts of the country. This morning I was in the Dublin docklands talking to representatives of the retail sector. They have come through a torrid time and many of them have not drawn anything from their businesses for some time. They now see opportunities beginning to emerge. It is important to note, for instance, that the Government's €500 million programme to extend fibre connection to 1,100 towns and villages in the next two years will provide for speeds of international scale. It will also allow small businesses and individuals to work from home or elsewhere as if they were in city centre locations. These elements are all part of the Government's response to attempt to use the tax system and the experience of those involved in business by offering opportunities to increase employment. In the process people can be taken off the live register and given a sense of hope, confidence and trust that they can improve their lot.

The new social contracts built into water metering or in multinationals coming here to look at the talent pool, experience and motivation of persons on the live register have been a surprise to many. They find that, instead of it being just a list of people who are long-term unemployed, in many cases there is experience and talent that can add greatly to the status of firms.

When the Deputy says these gatherings are over the top, certainly I have to-----

5:25 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I did not say they were over the top.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am sorry; gabh mo leithscéal.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I asked about the bonds.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

Photo of Peter MathewsPeter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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They do not understand what is happening at ground level.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is not that they do not understand; some of them understand very well what is happening on the ground. If for some reason they do not, they can understand it clearly from politicians.

Photo of Peter MathewsPeter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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They are remote.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Some of them are significant employers in Ireland. For instance, I visited Intel recently with the Tánaiste and the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation. It spent €5 billion in employing 5,000 construction workers for the last two and a half years in preparing its fabrication plant. It understands very well what is happening on the ground, as do the workers.

Photo of Peter MathewsPeter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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That is what they do.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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When senior personnel from such companies attend these occasions and engage with me or the Minister for Finance, they understand very well what is happening on the ground.

Photo of Peter MathewsPeter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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To make a profit.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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However, we need more of this, in the sense of Irish small businesses being able to supply quality niche products or services. That is where we have a filtering throughout the country of the real value for the economy in jobs and growth, which is what it should be about.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach never answered the question about bonds. Has he tormally tabled it at the ECB? Has the Government asked the ECB to return profits on Irish bonds to us?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will have to come back to the Deputy on that question.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have asked it about 50 times.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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When our folks were putting together a sense of this in response to the questions put to the Taoiseach, I asked them to find something notable the Taoiseach had said. When we looked at something he might have said that was notable at Davos four months ago, I came on something he had said there two years ago. When he brought forward his analysis of an géarchéim eacnamaíochta, he said: "People went mad borrowing in a system that spawned greed, went out of control and led to the crash." That analysis of the causes of the crisis in the economy, to which I assume he still sticks, was wrong then and is wrong today.

It just shows one. That was the Taoiseach's input. In response to Deputy Martin, the Taoiseach said that if these guys are a bit aloof and elite, there are politicians there to keep them right. However, he told them that this was Paddy gone mad. He knows that people did not go mad and did not do this out of greed. They were buying family homes or providing apartments for their children and were cajoled into borrowing large sums of money during boom times. The price was driven through the roof because of successive Fianna Fáil Governments' policies. That is what the people are being punished for, not their own greed. It is because of the greed of bankers, developers and speculators. Fianna Fáil takes the blame of course, but the Taoiseach was the then-Leader of the Opposition. Whatever he says about Sinn Féin, I would like to think he gives us credit for trying to hold the Government to account, whether he agrees with us or not. He was there at the time and the Government is only as good as the Opposition.

We now come to his last visit, when the Taoiseach said that emigration to foreign parts was good for citizens and a way of gaining experience which could be used on their return home. Those remarks were irresponsible and offensive. The two main failures of the two States on this island, particularly this one and particularly of its ruling elites and Governments, are partition and emigration. It moulds our psychology as a people that so many generations of our people have been forced to leave. Travel is good and it broadens the mind, but one should not be forced to do so and to rear children abroad. The Taoiseach must have met people, especially those from Mayo, who have put children through college who are now in Australia, Canada and London. I meet them all the time. Those people have grandchildren who are not coming home.

On the world stage, the leader of the State has said two notable things at recent meetings of this grouping at Davos. Imagine a town of 400,000 which has been emptied. What about getting them back? What incentive is there for someone out there to come back? They did not leave for experience other than in the case of a very small minority. Many of them went because they did not want to stay here where they could not make a living. Many went because their friends had gone. I remember meeting a very old man who is one of the last of those who left the Blasket Islands. I met him in Springfield, Massachusetts, and he spoke to me in Gaeilge. I asked him why there were so many of his peers there. He asked me if I had ever seen a flock of birds flying and said that where one comes down, another and another follows until the whole flock comes down. That is what we see. I try to get to Donegal. Scores of young men and women from the parish I visit are working in the mines. They found out about their friends being there and they went because they could not get jobs or a home here. The Irish youth unemployment rate is approximately 23% and it is irresponsible for the Taoiseach to speak so casually while on foreign trips, especially to a gathering like that at Davos, which is elite, and particularly when there is nothing in place here to induce those folks to come back.

Hopefully, there will be space for them to come back, but I ask the Taoiseach if he regrets making those two remarks. It is little wonder that those in the elites in the European Union and at events like Davos think they can do what they want when the leader we sent to represent us comes off with such remarks. The Taoiseach is not Davos's man in Ireland, he should be Ireland's man in Davos. Would the Taoiseach like to take this opportunity to correct the record?

5:35 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The question here is on the attendance at Davos on the last occasion. Perhaps I did not phrase myself as clearly as I could have. What I was trying to do was point out the situation where our country went over the edge economically. I heard the reports from the son of the late Tom Gilmartin who spoke the other night about his family's experience of what happened and the culture that existed in our country. It is true to say my party was in opposition at the time and it is also true that if Deputy Adams checks the record, he will find that the then-spokesman on finance, Deputy Richard Bruton, raised year after year at budget time the growing housing bubble particularly in Dublin and throughout the country. Nobody listened and nobody wanted to listen.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It did not stop Fine Gael councillors voting for it.

Photo of Peter MathewsPeter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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It was a credit bubble.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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A previous incumbent of the chair in which I am sitting made a remark for which he had to apologise to the effect that if people thought the housing boom was going to end, they should commit suicide.

Deputy Adams mentioned two things that are fundamental to Irishness, emigration and partition. He rightly states that this has an impact on our psychology and the kind of people we are. He also clearly made the point about where I come from myself and asked how one gets back 400,000 people. I said in reply to some of these questions previously that, on the trade mission to Japan, I spoke to 16 or 17 young Irish engineers who were working in Osaka to build turbines for gas energy plants. Their contribution to engineering at the very highest level and changing its frontiers does one proud. It was because of their talent and their skill. There are thousands who have availed of their ability and potential. Yes, I feel sorry for those who feel they are forced to go away.

I grew up in the west of Ireland. Last Saturday, I happened to be the patron of a fund-raising project for breast cancer research, which involved arduous cycling. On the way to Achill, I passed a sign noting the twinning with Cleveland, Ohio. When I was a child, it was more typical and logical for people from that part of our country to go to Cleveland as had happened in pre-Famine and post-Famine times. It was more logical to go to work in Cleveland than in Westport. That is in the people, although I am not saying it applies now as one does not want it to. The trend of emigration and what the fear Gaeltacht Deputy Adams spoke to from the Blaskets said are part of our psychology and personality. I agree with the Deputy on that. Some of my own extended family worked in the copper mines in Butte at the turn of the last century and raised their families there. Many of their descendants came back just last year as part of the Gathering. Long lost unknown connections were re-established to foster new relationships.

To deal with this requires an economy that is in shape, well run and provides opportunities for growth and new ideas. This morning, people in the retail sector were talking about different ideas to give vent to that creativity and capacity.

We cannot do it unless there is openness and willingness to give an opportunity for it to happen. For small and medium-size enterprises to access credit through the local enterprise offices, which are now in the local authorities with new devolved responsibilities, hopefully it will be a success and people will get proper and accurate information, mentoring and the connections they need to follow through so that the processes, through the Action Plan for Jobs and access to credit, will help them get on the rung of the ladder.

I would love to see people coming back. I spoke to a young man from the south of Ireland last year. He was drawing a social welfare payment of €188, then went to Australia to work for 15 months, cleared almost €100,000 and came back and put his little transport company on the road. I admire the young man for his initiative, hard work and dedication to wanting to come back and getting the means to do so. Not everyone does that. We must ask whether we can put our country in a place that we have the invitation and the opportunity for people to come back. It is not easy for married people who have families to leave when work is not available locally because they have been caught in negative equity or mortgage distress. When the Government produces its construction programme next week, I hope it will add some dimension of an incentive to have registered contractors carry out works all over the country to provide employment and opportunity. We can follow that with a construction stimulus, given the scale of what we must do over the period ahead.

I share the broader analysis of the Deputy on what partition and emigration meant to the Irish, particularly emigration. Having had discussions in Washington, I hope discussions between Republicans and Democrats in Washington result in legislation being brought through to deal with the undocumented Irish, many of whom want to go to live, work and contribute to the economy of the US and, at the same time, have the opportunity to travel back for family circumstances, such as weddings, funerals or other occasions. These were not discussed directly in Davos but the issue of transatlantic trade and investment partnership talks, for which Ireland through its Presidency got a mandate from the European Parliament and the Commission to go ahead with, was followed immediately by the response of President Obama at the G8 summit to get on with it. There have been constructive and successful meetings to date. Some of this gets very complicated but there is an opportunity for a couple of million jobs on either side of the Atlantic and the setting down of conditions for world trade for the coming generation given that the two greatest trading blocs on the planet are involved.

In meeting some of the personnel involved, many of them have interests in Ireland because of headquarters from a European or world point of view or their investment through the services and products they provide. These are all part of the mix and we would like to think that things will be way we aspire to have them more quickly. There are serious numbers of unemployed people at European level and, given the difficulties many Governments face, it is not easy to get decisions through the European Council in the way we would like. These are matters we must work hard at. I hope we can have an opportunity in the future to discuss the second of the pillars because of its impact on our people and what it means for our history and for our future.

5:45 pm

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I want to ask about two issues regarding Davos, one of which the Taoiseach addressed and the second he did not. I want to clarify that the Taoiseach did not talk about it when he should have. On the matter he talked about, fairly astonishingly, one of the big issues discussed at Davos was inequality and the need to address it. I will briefly pass over the enormous irony of some of the world's wealthiest and most powerful people arriving in the Swiss Alps in helicopters and private jets to discuss what we should do about inequality, when most of them are the embodiment of the gross inequality that exists in the world. There is a certain irony in all of that. I wonder what the Taoiseach had to say on the issue of tackling inequality and what the Taoiseach came back with in terms of what will be done in this country to tackle the growing and - frankly - shocking inequality developing in Irish society.

This is perhaps best evidenced by the absolute scandal referred to earlier, which I have raised many times over the past two years, of the housing and homelessness emergency that sees families and children in desperate situations of homelessness and insecurity, with all that goes with it. It is an extraordinary irony that the Government is putting through a Children First Bill this week. One of the first things the Children First guidelines set out is that it is a form of abuse to neglect a child and that those guilty of the neglect, which is a form of abuse, should be accountable for that abuse. It will be interesting to see whether the guidelines set this down legally in the legislation. Could there be anything more abusive and a better example of the neglect of the State and of its obligations to children than to have those children homeless and living in the most inappropriate situations imaginable in hostels on the other side of the city with chronic drug and alcohol users and on housing lists for 15 years while being buffeted from one place to another with no security? Let us imagine what this does to the welfare, psychology and emotional balance of a child going from an infant to an older teenager not knowing whether they have a secure roof over their heads. Let us imagine what that does to them in terms of a sense of place in society. I wonder what was said as the wealthy, powerful and privileged discussed at Davos the need to address inequality. What did the Taoiseach say about this inequality? What did he come back with in terms of tackling these gross forms of unacceptable inequality?

I looked at the report card produced by the Children's Rights Alliance for 2014. It gives the Government E-, the second worst grade one can get, for tackling child poverty. Some 20% of children stated last year they go to bed hungry, which is extraordinary in the 21st-century. What is the Government doing about it? In so far as we have some of the world's wealthiest people and the CEOs of some of the world's most profitable companies, which are at the centre of allegations of paying negligible or no tax, was there any suggestion that if these people paid a little bit more tax we might not have the same level of gross inequality and children going to bed hungry? Is that not the obvious conclusion they should have come up with at Davos, which any reasonable person would come up with when looking at this level of inequality in society?

The second question flows from it.

I asked the Taoiseach whether he discussed the issue of property and housing in Davos, because housing and property were at the centre of the global and Irish economic crisis. I have been trying to ring the alarm bells about this since the Government introduced the new property based tax reliefs for property speculation, in the form of real estate investment trusts, two years ago. I warned the Taoiseach then that this could lead to a further speculative property bubble, but that was totally pooh-poohed by him and the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, although it is now becoming evident. Under the Fianna Fáil Administration, the Taoiseach suggested the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton had prophetic powers when it came to the property bubble, but strangely, this did not seem to stop Fine Gael councillors supporting planning permission for insane developments all over the country, which helped pump up property prices. However, we will set that aside here.

Is the Taoiseach aware there is a serious danger now of another property bubble and what is he going to do to address this? The Taoiseach has been travelling around the world seeking investment and has visited places like Davos, and New York for St. Patrick's Day where he said to investors that if one was to build a few thousand houses in Dublin, one would have them sold within a week. In other words, he was encouraging people to speculate in property. This is extraordinary, given the role property speculation has played in our economic downfall. Did the Taoiseach go to Davos encouraging this sort of speculative investment in property in Dublin? Does he realise that in so far as the property bubble and the dramatic increase in rents and property values is happening, when he talks about the need to address the supply issue he seems to suggest this will be dealt with by investment in this area expanding supply?

I put it to the Taoiseach that this shows the poverty of analysis in terms of what happened in the crash we have just been through. We had from 70,000 to 90,000 houses built a year, but that did not stop a bubble developing. Property prices do not stop spiralling out of control just because private investors move into the area of housing and property. We saw the biggest surge of investment in property during the Celtic tiger period and that did not reduce property values, but led to a spiralling out of control of property values. Is there not something fundamentally wrong with the assumption the Taoiseach seems to be relying on - that to resolve the problem, all we need is people to move in and invest in this area? Is it not obvious that people who invest in property invest for profit, not to house the people on the housing list? They will not invest to build housing for people on the housing list and will not be interested in low cost or affordable housing because they cannot make as much money from that.

We need affordable housing in order to regulate the overall market. Is there any awareness on the part of the Taoiseach in his analysis of this situation that this is what we need? We need public investment in affordable housing, both to house the people on the lists and to regulate the housing market so as to prevent a further property bubble. Sadly, the Taoiseach seems to be touting speculation in Irish property internationally and I find that extraordinary.

5:55 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Boyd Barrett knows all the answers all the time and never has to make a decision about anything.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I asked questions.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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God forbid, if Deputy Boyd Barrett had three weeks over here, he would have the country wrecked.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Taoiseach has done a good job of that.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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No, we have had to pull it back from the economic Cliffs of Moher.

Photo of Peter MathewsPeter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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Give him a junior ministership.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He could be a very good junior Minister. He put down a number of questions here. He wanted to discuss unemployment and growth, banking and sovereign debt and trade and services. He asked if I held private meetings with counterparts at the Davos World Economic Forum, whether I had any discussion on Ireland's housing and property sector there and whether I had any discussion on the transatlantic trade and investment partnership.

Perhaps the Deputy thinks different meetings take place, but the forum is a structured occasion and one makes arrangements to meet particular personnel in whom the country might have an interest in terms of investment or further job opportunities. As I said in response to Deputy Martin, the forum began with a reception and an occasion hosted by the professor who has been running the forum for the past 30 years. The following day, I had meetings with Citigroup, Facebook and Adobe. We discussed the question of the new European context in which Ireland is an example of a country in very difficult circumstances dealing with a horrendous legacy. We have made significant progress and have exited the bailout programme and published an economic medium-term strategy which is working and to which we will adhere.

I also met senior personnel from Takeda from Liberty Global and from Salesforce and participated in a panel discussion with the President of the European Commission, the Secretary General of the OECD, the chief executive of Siemens and the Prime Minister of Sweden, the then Minister for the Economy. I followed this with an engagement, organised by the IDA, with senior investment personnel in the country. I met the Treasury Secretary from the United States and met with people from the New York Stock Exchange, Bank of America, Bloomberg and so on.

It was not a case of organising meetings about inequality, nor was it a case of arriving by helicopter. I arrived by bus and by car and walked around the streets, as I always do. The Deputy can forget about the days of an Ireland where people were flying around with doors falling off helicopters in their anxiety to get things opened. We live in a different world now. There was no discussion at Davos about the Dublin housing situation. The situation that occurred here was not caused by Davos. It was caused by light touch regulation, greed, incompetence, mismanagement and by the fact that the country, through a combination of these things and bad banking -----

Photo of Peter MathewsPeter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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And by boards of banks.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Absolutely. Banks were completely out of kilter with reality and they and all of this created the economic catastrophe for us. However, I am glad to say we are moving through that. There was no discussion with any of the people to whom I spoke about housing in Dublin.

In response to the question on child poverty and child neglect, I agree child neglect is an abuse to children's potential, their young minds and the environment in which they are reared. This is an issue. The Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, has been trying to deal with the situation of inadequate housing for so many people. The Deputy may think there is a dearth of analysis, but as he has heard me say previously, from a situation where local authorities granted housing permission all over the place for developments that were vast in scale, where 120,000 houses were built when only 20,000 were needed and where the speculative market was at its peak, we are now returning, for the first time in many years, to direct building for social housing.

I agree we need to be able to regulate in as far as possible the management of this development so that we do not cause a housing bubble. This means managing the demand for housing, the scale of land available for building and the process of planning so that there can be a surplus of housing available to keep the property bubble down. Nobody wants to see a return to that bubble nor have we got it now. The Minister of State has already set out her main stall in this regard, in regard to contributions from the HSE, from the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government and direct build.

There is also a requirement for private enterprise and for the construction sector to step up to the mark, whatever the mix of housing will be, to deal with the problems we have now, where people are sleeping in cars and families with children in bed and breakfast lodgings and hotels. This is not satisfactory and is not the kind of Ireland to which we aspire. However, it is an Ireland and a problem with which we must deal, but we cannot do so overnight.

It is not a case of in any way being inattentive to these issues. The Deputy spoke about a poverty of analysis. The situation on the ground is clearly not satisfactory, but, even given a serious intent to deal with it, it still cannot be dealt with overnight. Even the Deputy will understand this.

Issues such as the provision of social housing are impacted on to the best extent by investment, the creation of growth and wealth in the economy and the creation of jobs. That is why the Government wants to see this filter throughout the land. It is why we have a €500 million investment in fibre connections in the many places that were bereft of it and have been for many years. It is why we need a water infrastructure throughout the country and the continued process of road building. None of these things was discussed in an Irish context at Davos, but they all are part of the general response in terms of how to get the economy growing, together with exports, the provision of services, proper banking systems and services, and continued investment in the country. In respect of investment, that pipeline remains very strong. It is why the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, is in America talking to small exporting companies from Ireland which already employ 80,000 American people across 50 states. We need to see more of this, which requires growth at home. That growth will deal with the issue of poverty of opportunity for children and families.

6:05 pm

Photo of Peter MathewsPeter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle for allowing me to put a question. Before doing so, I acknowledge that the Taoiseach is dealing with a massive agenda and schedule and a huge number of interruptions and unplanned for things that arrive on his desk without warning. I agree that it is a tough position to be in. However, with the country in turmoil, would it not be time better spent by him if he were to make an interjection at Davos and ask for the programme to be put on hold while he brought colleagues' attention to the plight of this small country? It is a country that has been unfairly financially crushed by the losses of a private banking system that occurred because of the actions of boards of banks. These facts are measurable and provable not by any opinion but by a cold looking at the balance sheets of all the licensed deposit-taking banking and building society institutions in this country from 2002 onwards. These figures show us what caused the credit bubble. There cannot be a property bubble and property speculation unless there is credit and money to drive it.

I e-mailed the Taoiseach last Thursday with an analysis of the credit pyramid and where the measurable causality lay. It lies, as I said, with the boards of banks. Every single board member of every bank and building society should be included within the remit of the banking inquiry. That inquiry is not rocket science and will only require people from at home with the right qualifications and experience. We do not need international consultants. The track record has been that all the international consultants and firms have invoiced very stiffly and hard for producing inaccurate reports. In the case of the listing of loans for transfer to NAMA, for example, they got the projected losses 100% wrong. The modelling for the first prudential capital assessment review, PCAR, in March 2010 was 100% wrong. It is a sequence of heavy invoices and poor analysis.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is out of time.

Photo of Peter MathewsPeter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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In regard to the meeting at Davos, we have a situation where people pay $50,000 to attend. As Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett said, these are the elite, the powerful and the privileged. The book I gave the Taoiseach before Christmas, The Price of Inequalityby Joseph Stiglitz, addresses one of the core themes of the conference, namely, that distributive economics has been shown - again, by facts and analysis, not by opinions, wishful thinking and ideologies - to be more constructive and progressive and better at generating economic activity than the neoliberal model of the past.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is out of time.

Photo of Peter MathewsPeter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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I am on the Taoiseach's side.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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If the Deputy wants an answer, he must allow the Taoiseach to speak.

Photo of Peter MathewsPeter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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I hope he takes my suggestions in the constructive spirit in which they are given.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy has been involved in the financial sector for many years and has very clear and strong views on this issue. I had an opportunity to give a report from an Irish context on the difficulties we faced. I referred to the fact that there were no tools available when this difficulty struck Ireland and emphasised the requirement to follow through on decisions made by the European Council in respect of banking union resolution and the opportunity for consideration of direct recapitalisation in respect of the legacy position. The Deputy has argued his case cogently in many fora. It is important to point out, however, that were the same to happen now, the situation is very different in that the mechanisms have been put in place to deal with things in a more structured way than was possible when Ireland got into this mess in the first place.

Photo of Peter MathewsPeter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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The reality, however, is that the banks are still out of control.

Written Answers follow Adjournment.