Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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8. To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality the common areas of co-operation between his Department and the Department of Defence; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9491/14]

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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38. To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality the policy areas that overlap between his Department and the Department of Defence; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9492/14]

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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It is fairly well established that in a European context it is very rare for the Minister with responsibility for the Defence Forces to also be Minister with responsibility for the police force, with most European Cabinets choosing to have a second voice on security matters. I am seeking in my questions to establish the areas of co-operation between the offices of the Minister for Justice and Equality and the offices of the Minister for Defence and any legislative requirements in regard to engagement and co-operation between both Departments.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 8 and 38 together.

As the Deputy will be aware, Departments, while tasked with different responsibilities and duties, co-operate and contact one another on a daily basis regarding areas of common interest and duty. With regard to the Departments of Justice and Equality and Defence the following are the main areas of co-operation and policy overlap. As the Deputy may be aware, where necessary, the Garda Síochána are assisted in carrying out certain specific duties by members of the Defence Forces in fulfilment of the role assigned to the Defence Forces to provide aid to the civil power. Outside of these areas of aid to the civil power, the distinction between the policing function of the Garda Síochána and the military function of the Defence Forces is an important one and I have no proposals for deployments along the lines referred to by the Deputy. Also, under arrangements agreed between An Garda Síochána and the Irish Air Corps, aircraft attached to the Garda Air Support Unit are flown by Air Corps pilots.

One of the main areas of co-operation between the Irish Prison Service and the Department of Defence is the maximum security prison in Portlaoise. The Army memorandum of understanding for its role is to aid the civil power, An Garda Síochána and the Prison Service to prevent unauthorised movement into or out of the prison compound.

Under the auspices of the Office of Government Procurement, a defence and security category council was established in 2013. The category council is charged with determining the sourcing strategy for the defence and security category and must determine the best way forward to meet the needs of customer Departments. The nominated lead for the defence and security category council is the Department of Defence and the Irish Prison Service is a participant on the council.

As part of the normal engagement between Departments, officials in the Department of Justice and Equality and the Department of Defence are co-operating in regard to the proposal to establish a new Court of Appeal in the context where the establishment of the new court will see the abolition of the Courts-Martial Appeal Court.

In the context of drugs surveillance and interdictions at sea, there are common areas of interest. The Irish Naval Service plays a key maritime operational support role in assisting our law enforcement agencies in this regard. This is done through the joint task force on drug interdiction which enhances co-operation between An Garda Síochána, Revenue's Customs Service and the Naval Service in enforcing the law in regard to drug trafficking at sea.

I wish to draw the Deputy's attention to another area of co-operation between the Departments, namely the Government task force on emergency planning. The task force is chaired by the Minister for Defence and the Department of Justice and Equality is also represented on it, as are all other Departments and certain agencies, including the Garda Síochána. The Department of Justice and Equality co-operates with the Government task force in agreeing on the lead agency to take charge of the response in the case of an emergency arising. It also co-operates in developing risk assessments related to emergencies and in attending meetings of the Government task force.

I wish to advise the Deputy that my Department is currently preparing proposals with a view to updating and strengthening policies in the immigrant integration field as part of an overall integration strategy geared to present conditions. It is intended that the Department of Defence will be among the Departments asked to participate in this work.

At a more day-to-day level, a room is provided in the Department of Justice and Equality head office for use by senior staff from the Department of Defence. In addition, since the end of last year the Department of Justice and Equality has further facilitated the Department of Defence by arranging for the opening and closing of a premises in Dublin which is used by its staff.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for his comprehensive reply. Two weeks ago I submitted a question to the Minister for Justice and Equality asking if he would provide in tabular form the legislation in place for which his Department is responsible and which also confers powers, responsibilities or a consultative or advisory role on the Minister for Defence, Department of Defence or any authorised person within the Defence organisation and the nature of any such powers, responsibilities, consultative or advisory roles conferred on same.

The Minister replied advising me that as members of the Government are not officially responsible to the Dáil for interpreting or stating the law, he had no responsibility for the matter I raised. I tabled a similar question to the Minister for Defence and received a tabular breakdown. I have heard of Cabinet splits but I have never heard of a split on the part of an individual Minister. Can the Minister explain how that situation could evolve and why the Minister for Justice and Equality, apparently, does not agree with the Minister for Defence?

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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He is having a fight with himself.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Minister for Justice and Equality and the Minister for Defence do on occasion agree with each other. The list of legislation the Deputy received from the Department of Defence was a reasonable list and not excessive. Given the manner in which the Deputy phrased the question and the amount of legislation for which the Department of Justice and Equality is responsible, the amount of time it would take to trawl every relevant tranche of legislation relating to the Department of Justice and Equality would be extraordinary. I am keen that my Departments facilitate Deputies as best they can. In the area of defence, it was a more straightforward matter but, strictly speaking, neither Department is obliged to respond to a question of that nature.

I imagine the Deputy will appreciate that it was not out of any discourtesy to him and I imagine also the Deputy will appreciate that if Members were to pose questions asking the Minister to list all the legislation relevant to a particular matter, then the time of officials could be taken up to an extraordinary degree in simply listing legislation. God help them if one tranche of legislation was missed and the Deputies on the other side of the House were to criticise them. It was not out of any discourtesy. On the defence side, it was an easier matter to deal with but, strictly speaking, I understand it was not an appropriate question to table.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate that the Minister is in a unique position. I examined the Interception of Postal Packets and Telecommunications Messages (Regulation) Act 1993. There is a potential issue which may arise due to the fact that the same person is Minister for Justice and Equality and Minister for Defence. Under section 6(1) an application authorising an interception in the interests of the security of the State is made by the Garda Commissioner or the Chief of Staff of the Defence Forces. The Minister for Justice and Equality decides whether the these authorisations should be granted. However, where the application is made by the Chief of Staff of the Defence Forces, it must be accompanied by a recommendation in writing from the Minister for Defence supporting the application. In such instances the Minister for Justice and Equality would be considering an application that must include a supporting recommendation from the Minister for Defence. I suggest that creates a difficulty since the Minister for Justice and Equality is required to consider these applications carefully. However, if the application is to be accompanied by a recommendation from him in his role as the Minister for Defence, then it is difficult to see how he could be impartial and assess the issue impartially in his position as Minister for Justice and Equality.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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When that matter arose I expressed some concern about it. The legal advice I got was that under statute it was quite appropriate that I do both jobs. However, I took the view that it was not appropriate based on the spirit of the legislation. Therefore, to cater for when matters come from the Chief of Staff to be signed by the Minister for Defence, an order was made to the effect that instead of the current Minister for Justice and Equality dealing with the matter it would be appropriate to make an order that another Minister be so nominated. We were advised by the Attorney General in this regard. The Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte, was so nominated. Rather than me, as Minister for Justice and Equality, considering a decision I made as Minister for Defence, the order ensured that what I regard as the spirit of the legislation would be complied with, even though I got firm advice that in legal terms it was not necessary.