Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Workers and Unemployed Action Group)
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I move:

That Dáil Éireann:

recognises:— that the post office network is a unique social, cultural and financial institution that is essential to our local communities and the country as a whole;

— the vital contribution the post office network makes to the Irish economy;

— the fact that the post office network employs over 3,000 people throughout Ireland;

— that the post office network is the backbone of both rural and urban communities;

— that, as they stand, the Department of Social Protection’s plans for the electronic transfer of social welfare payments poses a serious threat to the future of the post office network;

— that without the income derived from the Department of Social Protection and the National Treasury Management Agency’s contracts, the post office network will be destabilised in terms of its viability; and

— that it will directly cause a reduction in cash payments at post offices which will ultimately lead to many closures and job losses throughout the country;acknowledges:— the specific commitment in the Programme for Government to ensure the sustainability of the post office network;

— the party wide acknowledgement of all elected representatives that the network provides a vital national strategic asset;

— that the key to the continued sustainability of the post office network is that An Post be equipped, through the provision of a full banking infrastructure operated by An Post, that will enable the network to facilitate the Department of Social Protection strategy to move to e-payments; and

— that the 18% of Irish people that are unbanked and the 23% that are not online rely solely on the post office network’s services; andcalls on the Government to:— produce a comprehensive action plan, setting out the measures to deliver on their strategy, and commit to complete the action plan within three months of the date of this motion;

— instruct each Government Department to implement, through the post office network, the business identified in the Grant Thornton and Joint Committee on Transport and Communications reports to underpin the sustainability of the post office network;

— commit that all tenders involving over the counter transactions will be decided on the basis of both social and economic policy;

— commit to implementing a new banking service that will be available through the post office network and operated by An Post;

— commit to a once-off capital investment fund for the further modernisation of the post office network to enable the widespread provision of banking facilities in rural and disadvantaged areas; and

— commit to reporting on the progress made on the implementation of the plan within six months of its publication.

The motion follows on from a commitment in the programme for Government 2011-16 which states that the Government will ensure that the network of post offices around the country is maintained and that communities have access to adequate postal services in their locality.

Compared to other retailers, the An Post network is extensive with 1,156 branches. Musgraves, for instance, has 895 branches, while there are 412 credit union offices. The Bank of Ireland has 255 branches, Allied Irish Bank 183, Ulster Bank 146, and there are 37 local authority offices. An Post's is therefore an extensive network which is available throughout the country both in urban and rural areas, including the smallest communities.

The An Post network serves not just rural areas, as may generally be thought, but is also available in many urban centres. In Dublin city the post office network comprises some 104 branches serving mainly disadvantaged communities throughout the capital. If the network is not maintained, sustained and supported quite a number of post offices will face closure, not only in rural areas but also in urban centres.

I want to welcome the postmasters who are present in the Public Gallery from around the country for this Private Members' debate, which will continue tomorrow evening.

One of the key problems facing the post office service is the possible loss of the social welfare contract in the short or medium term. The Grant Thornton follow-up report, which was commissioned by the Irish Postmasters' Union, indicated various scenarios. First, it stated that if there was no change, the social welfare contract was renewed and the Department's e-payment strategy did not go ahead, then the network would continue with few closures, if any.

The second scenario was where the social welfare contract would be lost completely. That would have a knock-on effect involving the closure of 557 of the 1,150 branches, which is a reduction of 48%.

The third scenario is where the social welfare contract is renewed but at a lower level of transaction due to the move to e-payments. That would reduce the network involving the closure of over 444 post office branches throughout the country, both in urban and rural areas.

My colleagues will cover many of the other areas involved, but I wish to refer briefly to the Government's amendment to the motion. In a statement earlier today, the Minister said that the Government has no plans to close post offices. The Government may not have such plans but the real question is whether the Government is prepared to allow post offices to wither away. Or is the Government prepared to take practical, concrete steps to ensure the continuation of the post office network throughout the country?

Unfortunately and disappointingly, an initial reading suggests that the Government's amendment contains no practical or concrete steps to ensure the retention of the post office service, as provided for in the programme for Government. I await the Minister's contribution on this matter.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I welcome the postmasters who are present in the Gallery. I congratulate them on their level of organisation and I wish them well in their protest at 7 p.m. tomorrow outside the gates of Leinster House. The Communications Workers Union, CWU, supports the protest and has written to all its members and asked them to attend. It, therefore, will be a large protest and will also include people who support the post office network. I take this opportunity to state that I am a member of the CWU and that I have worked as a post office clerk since 1979. I must, therefore, declare an interest in that I hope I will have a job to return to in two or three years' time.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Hear, hear. The Deputy will be safe enough.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am aware that there is much goodwill among postmasters in the context of recognising CWU members in their post offices.

The programme for Government contains a commitment to maintain the post office network as a result of the role it plays socially and economically. We want the Minister to indicate that this commitment will be adhered to. His announcement to the effect that no post offices will be closed is welcome. The post office network is, however, being undermined by means of particular actions, even, possibly, by those of the Government. The network is crucial in both rural and urban areas. I attended a residents association meeting on Friday night last and I was approached by a number of elderly women who had heard that up to 600 post offices could close as a result of a lack of financial transactions being conducted on their premises. The women to whom I refer do not receive their payments by means of electronic funds transfer. Another matter about which they are concerned - this was also highlighted by Deputy Healy - is that many banks are pulling out of villages and smaller communities. For example, only one bank branch remains open in Inchicore village following the recent closure of the Bank of Ireland branch there. Many of the elderly women I met cannot, therefore, access their funds via the banking system.

It must be recognised that 18% of Irish people do not have bank accounts. These tend to be individuals who are on low incomes or in receipt of social welfare payments. Some 23% - almost one quarter - of the population do not have Internet access. Again, those involved in this regard are low income earners, those in receipt social welfare payments and old age pensioners who rely on over-the-counter payments at their post offices. People also rely on the post office to pay their bills. The type of individuals to whom I refer may visit their local post office regularly to pay €10 off their gas, electricity, telephone or refuse collection bills. Post offices constitute an important social network which is - to our minds and those of the postmasters - being undermined by the Department of Social Protection's strategy to move to electronic payments. Despite winning the contract for this part of the Department's business, post offices are losing out because that business is being transferred to the banks by the Department on a daily basis. The Irish Postmasters' Union has evidence, both written and oral, which confirms this. For example, there is correspondence from the local officer in Bantry in which people are informed that before their claims can be decided, they must submit details of their bank accounts. People are not being given a choice and if this continues, post offices will no longer have the business relating to welfare payments and hundreds could be forced to close as a result. That is an important point. While the Minister is committed to not closing post offices, they could actually close by default as a result of actions on the part of some of his ministerial colleagues and their Departments.

Post offices are the bedrock on which the network was built. What happened in the UK in this regard has been made quite clear to the Government. The main lesson it can take from the experience in that jurisdiction is that it must act to bridge the potential €60 million a year deficit which could hit the network. If it does not do so, the network cannot survive. Grant Thornton reports that up to half of our post offices - up to 600 - will close if action is not taken. This potential closure of post offices would fly in the face of the commitment to which I referred earlier but also the Government's strategy of financial inclusion, which identifies the provision of a basic payment account, PBA, as a first step. Such an account would meet the needs of financially excluded people and its regular use would enable people to build up financial profiles for themselves. This, in turn, could assist poorer people in accessing mainstream credit rather than being obliged to approach moneylenders.

The motion calls for the establishment of an action plan - we want to hear from the Minister that such a plan will be forthcoming - and that a report on the progress made in respect of its implementation will be made within six months of the plan's publication. The longer the delay in respect of this matter, the greater will be the danger that post offices will be forced to close as opposed to being closed by the Government.

Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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We seem to have a tendency of failing to leave alone those organisations which work well. That goes to the heart of the matter under discussion. Our post offices work very well and the staff who work in them provide a range of services in a very friendly, helpful and courteous way. There is potential for even further services to be provided at our post offices but we are now finding they are under threat. The Irish Postmasters' Union's slogan to the effect that we should not let the heart of our communities die is very apt. Post offices are at the heart of communities and the offer a range of services to people of all ages. I acknowledge the work of the Irish Postmasters' Union in respect of this matter. All postmasters want is for the current Administration to honour the commitment it made in the programme for Government. That will mean developing a plan. Without a plan, difficulties will arise in the context of the very survival of the post office network. It is vital that the Government should honour its commitment and bring forward an action plan which contains timelines. Nobody wants to witness the demise of the post office network.

People trust their local post offices. This is because they have built up relationships with the staff. Post offices are reliable, dependable and extremely receptive to those people who, for various reasons, do not want to conduct business online. The personal touch is in evidence to a much greater degree in post offices than in banks. On the occasions on which I have visited bank branches in recent times, I have continually been directed to machines. I do not want to do business with a machine, I want to do it with a real person. That is what happens when I visit my local post office. The range of services available at the post office includes social welfare payments, savings facilities, the passport service, bill-pay services, postal services and the purchase of stationery supplies. Post offices are also a centre of information in respect of the various services that are available within communities. They are, therefore, a real asset. There are serious implications to not having in place a plan to ensure their sustainability and viability. What will happen is that there will be a drop in the number of people in employment and up to 500 post offices will be closed before 2017.

The Irish Postmasters' Union has commissioned two reports, the first of which includes a series of proposals on what could make post offices more sustainable. Each of these proposals included a cost-benefit outcome and the report estimates that if they were all implemented, more than €80 million in savings could be realised. Most of those savings would be to the benefit of the taxpayer. When the union requested a follow-up study, this concluded that the sustainability of post offices is at risk as a result of the Government's attitude towards contracts such as that relating to welfare payments. The system of making such payments through post offices works very well. This is because post office staff know the people who are in receipt of such payments. If somebody does not turn up to obtain his or her payment as a result of an accident or something worse, the staff will follow up on the matter. The Irish Postmasters' Union informs us that its staff act as a fraud deterrent element. As already stated, the staff know the people who present regularly to receive their payments and, as a result, the threat of impersonation is eliminated. It is also the case that if a person does not collection his or her payment within a certain period, it will be returned to the Exchequer. If payments are made electronically through the banks, there is no oversight whatsoever.

Post offices play a really important role in the context of budgeting. This is because people can pay particular amounts off their bills on a regular basis. They can also buy special stamps to save for their television licences. I cannot see the banks providing a similar service. In addition, banks are not always so easily accessible. This is due to the number of closures and amalgamations that have taken place in recent years. Post offices are very accessible because many of them are located on streets on which small businesses are to be found. When they visit their post offices, people also frequent these businesses and shop locally. If post offices are closed, the businesses to which I refer will also close and more ghost villages will be created as a result. Post offices provide excellent service in the context of facilitating people's passport applications and giving them access to State savings and investment options. I am of the view that they could also play a role in the context of the new driving licence initiative.

Great credit is due to the Deputy Healy for drafting this motion. When I first read the motion, I could not envisage how the Government could table an amendment to it. The Deputy is basically calling on the Government to develop a comprehensive action plan. The Government's amendment acknowledges that the network is a vital and unique asset and states that it is "essential to our local communities and the country as a whole". If we all agree that it is essential, then why has an amendment been tabled and why is Deputy Healy's motion, as drafted, not being accepted?

I accept the use of e-mail has caused a decline but I do not think that decline is irreversible. I would hate to see us lose the art of letter-writing and I would hate to think of what could have been lost if e-mail had been invented years ago.

The Government amendment acknowledges the suitability of the post office network for over-the-counter business and service. The Minister stated in his contribution that maintaining the post office network is at the heart of national and local community life. Competition law and procurement are all very well but they should not be favoured at the expense of a viable, thriving business that is providing essential services to the communities we all represent in both urban and rural areas.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I thank the Leas-Ceann Comhairle for the opportunity of speaking in this very important debate on the post office network. I commend my colleague, Deputy Seamus Healy, and my Independent colleagues for bringing this motion before the House. I fully support the Irish Postmasters' Union in its efforts to save its members' businesses, staff and excellent community service. I remind the Minister and the House that the post office network employs over 3,000 people. The post office network plays a key role in providing financial services and it is one of the most important brands in the country and helps to deter fraud. The post office is at the heart of every Irish community. For these reasons we should support this motion. I urge all Deputies to support the proposals in this very sensible motion.

The Government cannot keep talking about jobs and job creation and then put 450 to 500 people in post offices out of work between 2013 and 2017. The loss of €20 million in revenue a year brings into question the future sustainability of postmasters. I am conscious of the impact of closures of post offices in communities in my constituency of Dublin Bay North and around the country. Now is the time to stand up for our post offices and for our community services. Sitting on the fence or staying silent in this debate is not an option. In Kilbarrack, Coolock, Artane, Beaumont, Raheny, Darndale, Howth or Sutton, the people want a top quality post office service and we all need to get behind them before it is too late. If the Minister and his colleagues do not support this motion they are in breach of their programme for Government and they will be voting against the sustainability of the post office network. No more fudge, no more ducking and diving. The issue is about preserving jobs and the future of this country. The post office network is a unique social, cultural and financial institution essential to local communities and it makes a vital contribution to the Irish economy. It employs over 3,000 people throughout the country. It is the backbone of rural and urban communities.

The Department of Social Protection plans for the electronic transfer of social welfare payments pose a serious threat to the future of the post office network. Without the income derived from the Department of Social Protection and NTMA contracts, the viability of the post office network will be destabilised. It will directly cause a reduction in cash payments at post offices which will ultimately lead to many closures and job losses throughout the country. The post office network provides a vital national strategic asset.

This motion is about the future of our post offices and the saving of local community services; it is about the future of 3,000 jobs; it is about common sense and new ideas for developing the services of the network. I urge all Deputies to support this urgent and important motion and to vote for it tomorrow night.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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I propose to share time with Deputy Peter Mathews.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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I thank Deputy Seamus Healy for proposing this important and timely motion. The post office service is at the heart of our community services with a long history of hundreds of years. I remind the House of the importance of the service in ensuring our very survival, given the remittances that kept this country afloat for generations.

The post office organisation has been capable of change and it has met challenges through the centuries, most recently with the advent of electronic communications.

The Minister's press release stated that the Government has no plans to close post offices. What I want to hear is what plan has he to keep them open. That is the more pertinent question. The Minister announced that the post office network will encompass central and local government and he has promised a Cabinet committee will examine social policy. He announced that the examination will be holistic, "to look at the range of services which could be provided by the post office network and could perhaps yield synergies among the various agencies." This is not a very definitive statement and the Minister is very good at crafting fine words but I think people will be looking for more than those words; they will want to know how he will make that happen.

I ask if the Minister has been in a bank recently. Nowadays, banks only want virtual customers; they do not want real people walking around and they do not want old-age pensioners standing there, who are perhaps a little bit slower than they were earlier in their lives and they need a little bit more time to make a transaction. They are not linked to the Internet. They want to interact with a human being. The post office provides a very real human service which is delivered in a very personal way.

I agree it is positive to consider new ways for post offices to deliver additional services. However, the Department of Social Protection is a critical component of the service because it pays out child benefit, pensions and welfare payments through the post office network. The Department of Social Protection has cut back hugely on the community welfare office services and these services are now more remote from people. The closures may have cut the cost for the Department but we all know that it transfers that cost from the State onto the individual at a time when he or she most needs help. The Department of Social Protection must be part of the solution in ensuring the viability of the post office network.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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I thank the Technical Group, People Before Profit and the socialist Members for allowing us, the other Deputies loosely referred to as the Reform Alliance-Independent Members, to support this motion. It is a superbly clear, concrete motion, as Deputy Healy said. That is what I like - it is ordinary English that says ordinary things to which we can commit. Having been educated by the Jesuits, I suggest the Minister might avoid the temptation to use Jesuitical language. Let us talk clearly. The motion is clear and snappy. My colleagues and I support all the people in the post offices around the country. I am proud to say there is a post office near where I live on The Rise in Mount Merrion and it is a superb institution. I would hate to see anything that would undermine it.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
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I thank Deputy Healy for putting forward this motion and I congratulate the members of the Technical Group who have joined together to present this motion to the House.

It calls on the Government to maintain the post office network and sets out viable steps, with clear timeframes, for how this can be achieved. The motion is backed by the Irish Postmasters' Union.

It is the responsibility of the Government to realise a long-term plan for the future of the postal service. That responsibility is acknowledged in the programme for Government and reiterated in the joint Oireachtas committee report on the future of the postal service. Despite this, we are presented tonight with an amendment that has a Pontius Pilate quality to it, with the Government effectively washing its hands of its obligation to do anything to save the post office network. There has been a 15% decline in the network since 2006. The revenue from mail continues to decrease, with a 25% reduction in the past five years. However, the post office is about more than mail services and it is not good enough merely to fall back on the excuse of competition and public procurement issues, as the Government does in its amendment. The local post office is at the heart of communities across the country. It offers a vital connection and source of human contact for elderly people, those dependent on social welfare and others.

The potential closure of local post offices is an issue that has featured regularly in Topical Issue debates in this House in recent years. Colleagues and I have focused on the status of particular post offices and sought to protect individual communities. These include communities like Bunbeg in Donegal whose post office is currently under threat, and communities like Greencastle and Inishowen whose post offices have been given a stay of execution for 12 months. The real problem is that the Minister, Deputy Pat Rabbitte, and his Cabinet colleagues do not recognise the value of An Post and of a service that is important to every community in the country. The Minister is saying he is limited by competition and public procurement requirements. In fact, those concerns are not as restricting as he claims. He can choose to use social clauses, as provided for under European legislation and used extensively throughout Europe, in France, Greece, Spain, Germany and Italy. The inclusion of such clauses in public tendering contracts means the successful contractor must meet certain social requirements. An Post is ideally placed to satisfy that type of social obligation if the Minister would only choose to deploy such clauses. The problem is that he has chosen not to do so. That is the problem underlying his amendment and it is the underlying problem with Government policy on postal services.

The roll-out of the standard bank account represents another missed opportunity for the Government to safeguard and enhance the viability of rural post offices. At least two years on from the formation of a working group and in the wake of last year's pilot project, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, stated the following in his reply to a parliamentary question last week on the roll-out of the standard payment account:

The report of the working group on the pilot project noted the view of stakeholders that one of the key elements required as part of the preparations for a successful national roll-out of a standard bank account is greater involvement by An Post...  This was seen as necessary to have the best possible channel for reaching the target cohorts.

The failure to take decisive action in regard to social clauses and the roll-out of the standard bank account is killing post offices throughout the State. If the Minister is serious about preventing the closure of post offices, he must take action on these fronts without delay, instead of bringing forward an amendment that includes no timescales and no commitments and simply refers to what other Departments need to do. That is not a response to the motion. It speaks of alaissez-faireattitude and an intention on the part of the Government to continue, like Pontius Pilate, washing its hands of its responsibilities regarding the future of post offices in this country.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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I thank Deputy Seamus Healy and his colleagues in the Technical Group for bringing forward this excellent motion. I begin by declaring an interest in this matter in that I own a small post office and am the postmaster there. I am happy to say that it provides a job for one individual. If everybody created one job, it would be a great thing. I compliment the Irish Postmasters' Union, including its general secretary, Brian McGann, as well as Tom O'Callaghan and the other members who represent postmasters throughout the country in such an excellent way.

I welcome the postmasters and other post office workers who are in the Gallery tonight. I also welcome in advance the people who will travel from all parts of the country tomorrow to show the Minister how people in both rural and urban areas feel about their local post office. These are genuine people. It is not easy for them to take time out from their busy lives to get on a bus in Limerick, Galway or Kerry and come up to Dublin. They are doing so because they want to show the Government what they believe in their hearts and souls. It is very wrong that the Minister and the Government are putting people to this worry. They were sold a pup in the programme for Government because the Government has not kept the promises it contains.

I compliment the excellent people who have run post offices over the years. When I hear about Tesco and other places running post offices, I am reminded of what happened in Killarney. Tesco was like Lord Haw-Haw when it began selling cheap petrol in the town and ultimately shut down 12 or 13 petrol stations. Once that was done, it increased the price of petrol and Killarney is now one of the most expensive places in the country in which to buy petrol. This happened because of one multinational company that came in and sold people a pup. That company will do the exact same with the post offices if it gets them.

I would like to see the Fine and Labour Party Members who will vote against this motion tomorrow night going back to their constituencies and telling people what they did. They are doing one thing in here but saying something different in their own places. I have to tolerate people from the Minister's party and from Fine Gael going around the constituency I represent letting on that they are for rural post offices before coming up here and voting against Deputy Healy's motion. It is hypocritical and misleading. They are lying and that is wrong.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Deputy not to use the word "lying".

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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I take back the word "lying". They are meagre with the truth. When it comes to the local elections, I urge people to ask the candidates who come to their door whether they are for rural post offices and the post office network or if they are happy to go along with the Labour Party and Fine Gael line. The Minister for Social Protection - otherwise known as Wonder Woman, according to the Sunday Independent - has a great deal to answer in this regard. If Wonder Woman really is interested in retaining jobs, she should be directing new recipients of welfare, in a proactive way, to use their post offices.

The bottom line is that if we do not use our post offices, we will lose them. Our small pubs are gone. Our small shops are gone. Petrol stations are gone. Small GP clinics are gone. Local hardware shops are gone. The creameries are gone. If the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, keeps going the way he is going, we will be left with nothing but the three Bs - briars, bullocks and badgers. The banks have made a mess of our country; now they want to make a mess of our post office network. The Government's amendment is a sop that will allow its backbenchers to come in here with their heads down and row in behind the party line like sheep. As other speakers have stated, there is no need for an amendment. It is nothing but nonsense because the motion before us is perfect.

I conclude by remembering the old-time warriors who worked in our post offices. The old postmasters who also had to run the telephone exchanges started work at 8 a.m. and kept on until 10 p.m., putting in a 14-hour day. I had the privilege of knowing some of them and I remember them tonight in a heartfelt way. They are gone to their eternal reward, God be good to them. They served our communities well for very little reward. Perhaps they are praying that the Minister will see the light and ensure our post offices, in both rural and urban communities, are kept intact. It will be a disgrace if he lets anything happen to them.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I propose to share time with the Chairman of the Joint Committee on Transport and Communications, Deputy John O'Mahony, and with Deputy Willie Penrose.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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That is agreed.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:

"recognises:— that the post office network is:

— a unique social, cultural and financial institution that is essential to our local communities and the country as a whole; and

— the largest retail network in Ireland - with 1,147 outlets nationwide - and employs over 3,000 people;

— the role of postmasters in delivering an important economic service to their communities; and

— the commitment in the programme for Government to ensure the sustainability of the post office network and the cross-party acknowledgement that the network provides a

vital national strategic asset;acknowledges:— the continued and irreversible decline in the volume of mail - a 25% reduction over the past five years;

— that the post office network is subject to competition law and the public service is subject to public procurement law;

— the challenges being experienced by the post office network, especially in rural areas, given the changing face of the retail sector with the advancement of e-commerce and the digital economy;

— the suitability of the post office network for over-the-counter transactional business;

— the importance of such over-the-counter services in facilitating cash management by lower-income households;

— the success of the post offices in winning significant new business volumes in recent years, most particularly in the financial services and payment areas;

— the role of An Post, as a commercial State company, to provide a nationwide retail network of economically sustainable post offices and the operational responsibility of

the company in this regard; and

— the input of the reports commissioned by the Irish Postmasters' Union as well as the report of the Joint Committee on Transport and Communications on promoting opportunities regarding the future sustainability of the network;endorses a whole-of-government consideration, encompassing central and local government and the wider public service, of the nature and extent of services that can be provided to the public using the post office network as a "front office of government"; and

encourages all public sector stakeholders to achieve the objective of securing opportunities for new business and maintaining the post office network at the heart of national and local community life."

I welcome this debate on the future of the post office network. I am glad of the opportunity to contribute to it. The post office has a unique standing in Irish life. As an institution, it is trusted and highly respected by the people. Apart entirely from its significant economic contribution over the years, the post office network has evolved a social role, in the widest meaning of the term, which is highly valued by local communities. Perhaps that social role is most valued in rural Ireland, where 64% of the post office network serves 38% of the population. Notwithstanding the changes wrought over the decades, the post office network has stood firm, as testified to by the fact that 1,147 post offices are doing business today. Obviously, I have been disappointed to read headlines in recent days asserting that 557 post offices are to close. The impression is given that somewhere, somehow, the Government has announced there is a plan to shut down post offices. There is no such plan. Unless there is a compelling case, the Government does not want to see a single post office closed. The Government welcomes the fact that although 197 post offices were closed between 2006 and 2010, just 17 closures have occurred since 2010. Only today, a spanking new post office was opened in Terenure. I do not recall closing any office in north or south Kerry.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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The Minister is wrong. They have been closed.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Like everyone else, An Post has not escaped the challenging economic environment since the economic collapse in 2008. The diminishing mail volume, which is due to technological advances, is even more challenging. These hugely influential factors are appreciated at every level of the postal network. They are ignored by nobody other than the authors of this motion. The economic collapse and the onset of the digital economy must be factored into any serious assessment of the future of the post office network. Some Deputies might wonder where the headlines about post office closures have come from. Some callers to my office are certainly querying this. The answer is that a consultancy report has calculated that the loss of the social welfare contract, which is worth approximately €50 million to An Post, would lead to the closure of 557 post offices in a worst case scenario. The point is that An Post did not lose the social welfare contract. In fact, it won the contract in a tender process as recently as last year. The Irish Postmasters Union is prudently asking what might happen in the future.

The motion gives all sides of the House a useful opportunity to have a full and frank debate on the future sustainability of the post office network. While the motion that has been proposed leans towards a more pessimistic view of future changes, I believe there is every reason to be more optimistic about the opportunities that lie ahead for the post office network in the digital age. It is clear from the overall results of An Post that the retail network business has grown over the past five years as the mail business has been contracting sharply. Some people might say this is due to unique factors such as social protection payments and demands for NTMA products. I disagree because I believe the post office over-the-counter business now offers services that are very different from those it offered in the past. Foreign exchange, passport, bank agency and tax payment services are provided in a competitive environment to customers who can choose to do business in other ways. That so many Irish people use these services bears testament to the quality of front-line staff and the ability of management teams who are working to support those staff.

For the reasons I have mentioned, I cannot accept the motion that has been proposed. I acknowledge some of the important issues and challenges raised in it. The post office network is a unique social, cultural and financial institution that makes a vital contribution to the economy. The post office is the provider of choice to a vast number of people who regard it as dependable, trustworthy and friendly. The professionalism of the postmasters, the unions, the board and the management of An Post has served the network well over the years. I do not see why this should not continue to be the case in the years ahead. An Post is a trusted brand. It is seen as a local reliable service in urban and rural areas. An Post has the largest retail presence in the country, with more than 1,100 outlets reaching almost 1.7 million customers. Its accessibility to almost everyone in the country is one of its main strengths. Like all other companies, An Post has faced up to a challenging economic climate in recent years. It has had to tackle diminishing mail volumes and seek alternative avenues of income. An Post's core mail business has suffered a major fall in recent times. This has had a serious impact on the company's revenue flow. In response, the company is proactively seeking to keep costs down and diversify its business.

As Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, I am keen to see the development of a digital economy and to progress further the digital agenda. Electronic substitution affects every aspect of our lives. Undoubtedly, it is having an impact on the traditional over-the-counter services offered by the post office network. The increased use of newer technologies, which is a simple fact of life, should be viewed as an opportunity to be grasped rather than a problem to be eradicated. An Post has undertaken a programme of capital investment, particularly in computerising and automating the post office network, introducing new products and making greater market investment. As a result, post offices are well placed to provide electronic and more traditional financial services. While the move towards further electronic transactions is inevitable, many people are not comfortable dealing with machines and prefer face-to-face services, as Deputies Joan Collins and Maureen O'Sullivan have said. An Post is in a unique position to offer electronic services to such customers without losing the personal engagement the customer requires. An Post faces the same challenges as all commercial organisations that are developing new strategies to adapt to the greater role of e-commerce in the economy. In the face of such challenges, An Post has made great efforts to expand its business. I have supported its attempts to diversify income streams and win a wider range of commercial contracts that offer higher profit margins. I believe the postmasters and An Post can go further to develop new business. The potential exists to roll out a standard bank account, for example. Perhaps the post offices might come together with the Irish League of Credit Unions to offer a solution in this area.

The Irish Postmasters Union commissioned Grant Thornton to review the range of contract services offered across the post office network. The two reports that were published on foot of this review - one in 2012 and the latest one this month - outline options for new commercial business arrangements. Last year, the Joint Committee on Transport and Communications published a report highlighting a range of opportunities that could be pursued and acknowledging the high regard in which the network is held and the confidence that people have in the post office. The fact that 64% of the post office network is located in rural areas brings in another factor relating to rural sustainability and future development. A wide range of issues must be tackled to ensure the economic continuity of businesses and communities in rural areas. Operational matters and the development of commercial strategies with regard to the post office network are matters for An Post. Nevertheless, it is true that as a shareholder, I have a strong interest in and concern for the future sustainability of the company. This is backed up by the commitment in the programme for Government to ensure the sustainability of the post office network and the cross-party acknowledgement that the network is a vital national strategic asset.

For these reasons, I am pleased to announce that Government has agreed a whole-of-government consideration, encompassing central and local government and the wider public service, of the nature and extent of services that can be provided to the public using the post office network as a front office of government. This whole-of-government analysis will be undertaken in the first instance by the Cabinet committee on social policy with a view to a report to Government by that committee. I assure Deputy Healy Rae that his favourite Minister, the Minister for Social Protection, will be on that committee.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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Wonder woman.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Indeed.

This will afford an opportunity for a holistic review of the range of services which could be provided by the post office network and could perhaps yield synergies among the different agencies.

I must stress one point, however. An Post is a commercial State company that earns its own keep and receives no Exchequer subsidy. My colleagues and I cannot arrange a hidden subsidy for it by dictating that all or even any Government business is automatically given to An Post. These are commercial contracts that must, under EU and Irish public procurement law, go out to competitive public tender between all interested parties. Deputy Pringle's point about adding in a few social clauses that he claims surmounts these barriers in France and Germany does not happen, and I do not advise him to try it.

The Department of Social Protection is in the course of making significant changes in the delivery of its services on a nationwide basis. Notwithstanding this, it will remain for the foreseeable future the most significant corporate customer of the post office network. The winning by An Post of the tender for the over-the-counter cash payments for social welfare during 2013 will have an important stabilising effect on the company in the short to medium term.

However, technological change, consumer choice and expectations and the actions of An Post's competitors will give rise to substantial new challenges in the years ahead. The priority for Government is that An Post is in a position to compete and win contracts for payment services independent of the technology platform.

An Post may be the best-known and most successful indigenous brand we have. However, this will not suffice if it is not able to provide the services demanded by its customers in the way that those services are required and in the location where those services are needed. The nature of the post office counter business and the traditions embodied by it do not make transition easy when change is required. I believe it is fundamentally wrong for the State as shareholder to constrain the capacity of the company to provide competing services where these are demanded by its customers.

It is important to reflect briefly on the experience of the Irish retail sector as a whole over the past decade. Deputies will be aware of the enormous changes wrought on the sector by a number of key structural forces. The first is the scale of the recession and pre-existing credit bubble which has, more than any other single factor, led to retail shutdowns. The evidence is that post offices - particularly larger offices - have been protected from the worst impact of economic decline because their business is social in nature, relying on a high volume of transactions conducted on behalf of the Department of Social Protection. However, the smaller offices have been affected by movements in trade resulting from the closure of adjacent business.

Post offices have traditionally been based on the high street. This is fine so long as the bulk of retail activity takes place there. However, when activity moves to a nearby shopping centre, consumers show a preference for on-site provision of service, rather than walking to a separate location to conduct their business. An Post might regret that this physical transfer of business is taking place, but it will ignore it at its peril. It is certainly not ignored by An Post's competitors. This is where they are establishing their points of presence.

The second factor I would list is the scale of youth emigration, particularly from the regions, which has happened as a result of the recession. The third is the extent of e-substitution, which is rapidly changing the shape of bricks-and-mortar retailing, most notably in the whole area of over-the-counter business and services. Companies and businesses that do not have an electronic channel to market will suffer. The Government's digital strategy recognises this reality and seeks to accelerate the move forward by SMEs. There is not much point in expecting the world to stand still while An Post remains committed to over-the-counter business. The reality is that An Post's competitors are moving quickly into electronic transactions. An Post is obliged to respond to this if it is to retain its pre-eminent position in the market place. If competitors can offer electronic services at a cost much lower than over-the-counter transactions, it is unreasonable for us to impede An Post from also providing these electronic services.

Fourth, there is the phenomenon of retail concentration. Commercial and trading businesses are moving out of small rural towns into supermarkets based in larger county and provincial centres. An Post's competitors are establishing a point-of-sale presence in the larger retail outlets, where the bulk of the population conduct the bulk of their weekly shopping. That presence represents a significant threat to the company if it does not respond.

The Government's amendment to the motion is based on three principles. It builds on the core strengths of the existing post office network. It addresses the need for future sustainability by focussing on competing for and winning new business. It engages all key public sector stakeholders in a whole-of-government consideration of the scope for service provision.

The long-term health of the post office network requires focussed, long-term company action, in co-operation with the Government, and not an approach that may be based on the best of intentions but is not based on an enduring capacity to deliver competitive services, freely chosen and locally provided.

There is no doubt that further challenges will present themselves in the years ahead. Prevailing against these challenges will require dedication and hard work. I am convinced that An Post possesses the capacity and drive to adapt to the changing needs of customers, as well as the necessary commitment and resolution to continue to develop the post office network. In doing so, it will have my active support and that of the Government.

Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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This is a very important issue for people throughout Ireland and I am glad to have an opportunity to contribute to this pivotal debate for the third time on the floor of this House in the past seven months. I am pleased that the Minister has for the first time committed to a whole-of-government approach to devise a comprehensive plan, involving all the relevant stakeholders, including the Irish Postmasters' Union. It will explore real and meaningful ways to ensure the sustainability and survival of the post office network which has in excess of 1,000 offices and sub-offices, through using the post office network as the front office of government. That is a very important step forward and should be acknowledged.

The survival of the network is predicated on the revenue generated from main Government contracts, mainly the social welfare payment contract and the NTMA savings portfolio. Prior to Christmas the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, in the company of Mr. Mueller, the chairperson of An Post, announced at the GPO the renewal of the contract relating to the delivery of social welfare payments to customers, which is worth up to €50 million to An Post and is one of the pivotal elements in helping to secure the position of sub-post offices throughout the State. The contract is for an initial period which can be renewed. The contract importantly stipulates a control element in the payment by way of having to furnish individual identification documents, which is an important aspect of security control in terms of reducing fraud. I believe this unique element can only be provided by the post offices and their personnel. I would be confident that An Post should secure that social welfare contract well into the future.

The programme for Government contains a specific commitment in respect of ensuring the sustainability of the post office network, which is a national and strategic asset. This is why the announcement the Minister has made tonight to put flesh on the bones of the commitment is so important. We need a whole-of-government approach with each appropriate Department and agency, and other elements of the public service obliged to make an input or submission as to how a particular service it is pursuing might be done through the post office network. Where they identify new businesses they should examine the possibility of these services being provided through the post office network.

As a Deputy representing a mainly rural constituency, I have witnessed the withdrawal over many years of financial services from these areas. Bank branches and sub-branches have been closed down leaving people with no facilities. Many of these people are elderly with little or no public transport available to bring them to the nearest big town where they might not even be well known.

In this context, therefore, I urge the exploration of the possibility of post offices becoming satellite offices for the credit union movement. Obviously this would have to be explored and agreed with the credit union movement at headquarters. It would give access to many people who live in isolated areas and who have no ready means of transport, public or otherwise. It would also give great comfort to such people who might be saving a few bob to lodge same and have ease of access to same in the event of an emergency. It would at least allow a quasi-form of banking to be made available in rural areas, and the post office is an ideal vehicle for delivering that.

Likewise, the State owns 98% of AIB. Surely a link-up with this financial institution could be explored and if found positive could be embraced. Post offices have anchors throughout the country, with there being 1,130 postmasters and sub-post offices, and these can facilitate the exploitation and use of all these facilities. The plan or review process should be open-ended, not subject to limitations, and should examine how additional services can be profitably provided. One must at all times acknowledge the social utility value of having services close to the user, which the post office network allows and achieves in a very noble fashion.

Therefore, the Government must, as part of its plan or consideration, examine the possibility of providing a banking service through the post office network and operated by An Post. The board of directors of An Post need to wake up and smell the coffee and be creative and forward-thinking and not be running to the Tesco branches or anywhere else. Instead they need to examine, as the Minister said, the possibility of the post office network bringing in and putting in place electronic transfer fund mechanisms. The possibility of An Post expanding its operations and providing current account facilities, either on its own or on behalf of associated banks, could open up huge opportunities. There are a myriad of significant opportunities which should be explored in the context of this plan or review, especially the provision of services on behalf of Departments, semi-State bodies and local authorities. I wrote to one such body today, namely, Irish Water seeking that it would ensure the post office network is utilised for the next number of months for the purpose of collecting the new water rates charge. More than one million bills will be processed and this could be an invaluable source of revenue for An Post. This is a new area where the post office network could be utilised and it is ideally situated for the mutual benefit of Irish Water and the postmasters and postmistresses. Some 800,000 customers interface with the Department of Social Protection and here we have 21% more customers available, especially many elderly who would deal with the post office every week. This is an ideal place to start. We have the Government commitment and assurance that it will not close post offices, but it is important we show the way forward of how that can be achieved in a real and sustainable way.

I agree with the Grant Thornton analysis that the most viable option to secure the post office network is for the Government's contracts to continue to be won by An Post, and while these are subject to EU law and competition law, I believe this is eminently achievable. I call on the Department of Social Protection to desist from issuing letters to social welfare recipients informing them of the availability of electronic transfer of funds or e-payments, which specifically refers to the banks. Why not state clearly and unequivocally in these letters that the facility to receive cash from the post offices is and remains a viable option? The post office network should be upgraded to accommodate the electronic transfer of funds directly. People should be afforded the clear opportunity of opting out of electronic funds transfer and to continue to receive their welfare payments over the counter as normal. This must be part of any review, consultation or plan, and how the basic payment account plan can be implemented should also be part of that.

We must never disregard the social utility value of post offices. Not everything can be evaluated and assessed in terms of balance sheet or bottom line style economics. The human interaction, advice and help plays an essential and crucial role, which is inestimable in terms of value. A balance sheet approach discounts social policy, and that is a failing. It is a significant area that can be exploited and I urge Minister to ensure this review would take all those points into account in a very meaningful and sustainable way.

John O'Mahony (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate. I commend Deputy Healy and the Independent group on bringing forward the motion. I thank the Minister for sharing his time with me. As somebody who has used the services of An Post at my local post office since childhood, I am acutely aware of the need to preserve the services and enhance them. Given the enormous change that has taken place in people's lifestyles and in technology, every business and organisation is undergoing a massive shift in the way services are delivered. I firmly believe we must give An Post and the post offices of this country the tools and wherewithal to be able to adapt to that change.

There is a great opportunity to maximise the productivity and output of each and every post office to deliver services in every parish and community in this State. Recent examples of how our post offices can deliver a service with maximum efficiency are An Post's passport service and its facilitating the payment of the property tax. Other such possibilities will arise with the payment of water charges, motor tax renewals and so on. It is important that post offices can deliver these services cheaply, efficiently and at more convenience to the consumer than any other organisation. They need to be given the chance to tender on an even playing field. I note that post offices were excluded from the start in respect of the driving licence service because of the criteria that were used about only having a very limited number of outlets in each county.

Much recent discussion has centred on the Department of Social Protection plans for the electronic transfer of social welfare payments through the banks. Surely it should be possible for these payments to be made electronically to the post office as well. I understand that electronic payments can be made for An Post employees into their post office savings bank. In other words, the software is already in place to deliver that service. This would also make sense as an increasing number of banks either close branches or withdraw services from small rural towns and villages. AIB has in recent years closed many of its branches in small towns and Bank of Ireland in the same locations restricts counter services to just two days a week. The opportunity to fill that void should be given to our post offices. The payment of more social welfare payments should also help to reduce the risk of fraudulent payments, which rightly needs to be addressed, in order that those who deserve support can get it.

Having attended last week the launch of the latest Grant Thornton report by the Irish Postmasters' Union and being involved last year as chairman of the Joint Committee on Transport and Communications in producing our own report, I note there are many similar recommendations in both of them and welcome the fact that the Minister has acknowledged their input in providing solutions. Many of those recommendations, if implemented, would ensure the sustainability of the network. I welcome the Minister's announcement of the review which can move forward many of those recommendations.

It is important to point out that it is not only the Government that can ensure the continued viability and sustainability of the post office network. It, along with all State bodies, should be given opportunities and should make services available through the local post office, but that challenges the community at large to avail of and use these services. I have stood in halls where 400 and 500 were gathered who protested at the threat to close the local post office. I want to be fair and balanced on this. I would imagine that many of those who protest are either not aware of the services their local post office provides or use the services in other areas. There is a challenge to the community to use these services. In the review that was carried out last year, An Post agreed to more consultation when there was a threat to a post office. Communities must be given the chance either to use their post office and pay their bills or risk the fact they might lose it. My experience is that the public often are not aware of the services on offer. They need to be educated about what services are available. There are also a number of perceptions regarding the threat to the post office network, one being that the threat exists only in isolated rural areas. It exists in small post offices in rural and urban areas and that needs to be addressed as well. It is not a rural versus urban issue.

I am also convinced there is a need to get an increased number of younger people using the services in the post office. This was encouraged many years ago by the purchase of savings stamps or whatever. That initiative must be adapted for the modern needs and requirements of young people. It must also be noted that An Post has a responsibility for the future survival of the country's post office network. I note it has recently piloted a partnership with Tesco to provide some services in its outlets. Surely An Post cannot, on the one hand, assert that it wants to maintain the viability of the post office and, on the other hand, dilute those services to other outlets which further challenges that viability.

Michael Moynihan (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak in this important debate on the future of the post office network. It is an issue that has been debated on Question Time over the years and a whole raft of issues arise. The same themes keep coming up, namely, the trusted brand of An Post, the retail network it has throughout the length and breadth of the country and the excellent work being done by postmasters and postmistresses, as well as the support and respect they command within their local communities.

It is time we directly challenged An Post. It has been saying it wants to keep open the retail outlets and to engage with communities, yet post offices have been allowed to close the length and breadth of the country, particularly in rural communities, although urban communities have the same problems. Why is this? Many issues has been put forward by Government Departments, in reports by the Oireachtas joint committee and in the Grant Thornton report in regard to what services should be available. The first thing we have to establish clearly with the board and company of An Post is that, as a people, we want to maintain the highest number of offices possible. It then comes to the issue of viability. If we are going to take the viability route, and we have had these arguments back and forth over the floor of the House, then we are acknowledging that we will not maintain the post office network as it is currently. We have the trusted brand and the retail network, and if these need to be put to better use, then a whole raft of changes will be needed in order to maintain them. Three years ago, I suggested having the post offices as Government offices, which they have been in many places. This is based on the trust the postmasters or postmistresses have in their own communities among all age groups, who go to the post office for advice and for many other things apart from financial and social welfare services.

We have to challenge the board and management of An Post, once and for all. They are hiding behind viability and a whole raft of issues. For example, if a family member does not want to continue the business, An Post will instead install a unit in a shop. The latest issue arises in regard to Tesco, which raises a fundamental issue for the future of An Post. We have to challenge An Post. There is a trusted brand and retail outlets the length and breadth of the country which need to be preserved. It is a State company. We have to make sure An Post is in synch with the Government if the policy is that we are going to maintain every single one of these post office units throughout the country, as they should be maintained, given they have been providing a massive service through the years.

We have seen what has been lost, particularly in rural communities. People continuously ask me whether the policy is now to close down rural Ireland absolutely. It is very hard to argue with that because it is what is seen to be happening. We have to challenge the board and management of An Post directly as to what their policy is and whether they are going to step up to the plate. My colleague on the joint committee mentioned the driver licence issue, which was made so difficult that An Post could not tender for that contract. The reality is that every single Government contract should be put through An Post. It is a State company. While people talk about viability, there is a huge social aspect to An Post. I have seen communities that have lost their post offices, and they fall away immediately. I could mention many of them, including Mweeling, Tullylease and others in my own area. When they lose their post office, the next thing is that the local shop goes. The community is left with just a post box and its identity is lost.

The reality is that An Post is far more than just a commercial entity in rural communities or in any community. We have to value our communities in more than commercial terms. As I have said on several occasions from both sides of this House, rural communities have provided a fantastic service right across the spectrum from education onwards, but we are ignoring that. We are driving our people into urban society at a huge cost. In the 1960s, housing policy led to huge urbanisation, and society is paying a massive price for it still, for example, in west Dublin, Limerick and other places. This policy of urbanisation is completely wrong because we are leaving behind a massively rich resource.

I go back to my two points about the trusted brand and the retail units. We cannot allow them to be lost because they are fundamentally important to communities the length and breadth of the country due to the services they provide as well as the employment they give to postmasters. All the reports have shown it is high time that we route every possible avenue of Government into the post office network. There are units on the high street in every community. They can and will provide a massive service if An Post and its board are fully challenged and told they are charged with making these offices viable, not closing them and saying they are no longer viable or cutting the salaries of postmasters and postmistresses. If they are challenged directly and told it is their job to make these commercially viable, I guarantee they will have to step up to the plate, but only if it is put fairly and squarely on their shoulders to make them commercially viable.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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Any notion that the apparent direction of Government policy makes economic sense was comprehensively exploded by the Grant Thornton report. That report analysed Government policy in this area and pointed out there was a clear and imminent danger to the post office network, which is what has created the headlines in recent days.

Even if Government policy made financial sense, which patently it does not, then surely there is another dimension, namely, the social dimension. Life is not just about economics. The banks have closed branches in all our major towns because their focus is economics. Surely our focus has to include the social dimension.

As has been said, the post office network is a fundamental part of the social and community fabric of this country. It has contributed in no small measure to the stability we have as a society and a country. It is inescapable that the social welfare contract, and the NTMA contract to a lesser extent, are essential to the immediate survival of the post office network. The ambiguity and uncertainty created by the Government in regard to those two contracts does not engender confidence that it is genuinely committed to the future of the post office network. The Minister said that An Post has won the contract for a period of six years. It has not. It has won the contract for a period of two years, but what happens in two years time? There is total uncertainty.

The Department of Social Protection seems hell-bent on closing the post office network. It wants 75% of transactions to be electronic by 2017 regardless of whether the post office network can comply with that. More than that, certain sections of the Department of Social Protection have been writing to its customers, trying to bully them and force them to avail of the services of the banks and bypass the post office. While I do not have time to read the correspondence on that into the record, I can make it available to the Minister. I have brought this up on numerous occasions with the Minister for Social Protection and she shows not the slightest interest or inclination to do anything about it.

It is a peculiar situation where the Minister for Justice and Equality can call in the Garda Ombudsman, over whom he has no jurisdiction and who is answerable to Parliament, and demand answers, whereas the Minister for Social Protection cannot call in the people who are directly responsible to her - her own staff - and ask them why they are directly flouting Government policy.

If the programme for Government is policy, it is Government policy to protect and enhance the current post office network. I am frankly bemused as to why the Government is opposing this motion. It is written in black and white and is the last paragraph in the communications section of the programme for Government. All the motion is doing is asking the Government to implement a promise it solemnly made and entered into as one of the fundamental parts of its contract with the people. It is there in the programme for Government so let us get on with it and give the people of this country some sense of confidence that the Government is interested in helping them maintain their communities.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I am absolutely shocked that the Government has decided to show its lack of interest in and support for the post office network by amending the motion. The motion before us tonight is very simple. It is a call to action by postmasters and citizens of rural Ireland that asks the Government to wake up to the reality of rural decline. It calls for a plan to be put in place to save the post office network, thereby underpinning the basic infrastructure necessary to keep our rural villages alive and preserving and protecting the basic services that are necessary if rural communities are to survive.

The Government's decision beggars belief. This is a non-contentious motion. It is a cry for help and is being met with a slap in the face delivered by Fine Gael and Labour. I fail to understand how rural Government Deputies can traipse in here tomorrow evening and refuse to support this motion. They were quick to wrap the rural flag around their shoulders in 2011 but tomorrow night, as they vote down this motion, they will be stoking the blaze of extinction of the post office network and the vibrant rural communities it serves. The post office network is at a crossroads but it can and will survive. However, in order to do so, it needs some support. It needs to be able to support its hinterland and the various enterprises and businesses in its communities but it needs Government intervention and assistance. The Grant Thornton report and the report of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Transport and Communications underpin the network sustainability. A one-off capital investment plan is vital. Banking services rolled out through An Post are part of that solution and one that I believe is badly needed throughout the country as so-called pillar banks retreat with haste.

I appeal to Labour and Fine Gael Deputies to support the motion without amendment. They will be supporting rural communities' lifestyles and voters. By voting down this motion, they will be casting aside those communities, this lifestyle and those citizens.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I have been a postmaster since 2003 and I am proud to be one. This Private Members' motion was framed in a constructive manner and is non-contentious. Quite frankly, I am surprised the Government decided to table an amendment to it. Quite simply, it is asking the Government to honour a commitment it made in its programme for Government to ensure the sustainability of the post office network. The Government must acknowledge the fact that 48% of the branch network carries out 11% of business. While the Government talks about An Post being a commercial State company, many of the branches are not commercially viable. There needs to be clear recognition from the Government of the unique and vital social contribution made by the An Post network to the State. It is not just making an economic contribution to the State, but a vital social contribution.

It is disingenuous for the Minister to talk about previous reductions in the branch network under the previous Administration. What he failed to admit is that these reductions were voluntary and made at a time when there was huge investment in the computerisation of the post office network and certain people did not choose to have their operations computerised. The facts speak for themselves. An independent report from Grant Thornton cited clear examples of how State services could be provided through the post office network while, at the same time, saving the State money. It is amazing that three years into the lifetime of this Government, it now talks about a whole-of-government approach. Why did it take three years, the spreading of fear and anxiety into the people in the communities served by the post office network and the Irish Postmasters' Union having to come to Leinster House to protest for the Minister to sit up and take note of what needs to be done?

If we look at the record so far, the driving licence debacle was framed in such a way that it was disadvantageous for An Post to tender for that service. When the Minister spoke about the broadcasting fee a few short months' ago, he said that Revenue did a good job collecting the household charge so it might collect the broadcasting fee. Government Deputies and the Minister have alluded to the fact that An Post won the contract to provide the service on behalf of the Department of Social Protection. It did, but what is the Department now doing? It is writing to all recipients of social welfare payments advocating that they get their money paid electronically into their bank account. We have the farcical situation where Government Deputies come in here and call on the Department to cease this practice. They are in Government. Never mind calling on it, they should instruct the Department to cease this practice and honour the tender that has been won. They should work with the Irish Postmasters' Union and the various agencies to ensure that they honour the commitment made in the programme for Government and support the many communities the length and breadth of this country both urban and rural to ensure we retain the sustainability of the post office network. In my short time in this House, I have never been contacted so frequently by phone, e-mail or post than by people who are extremely worried that the future of their post office, which is the heart of their community, is not safe as long as this Government is in power.

Michael Colreavy (Sligo-North Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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I am disappointed by the Minister's response in one sense and very disturbed in another. He talks about the whole-of-government analysis, which appears to be a good idea, but where is the urgency here? Why was this not announced and set up when the report from the Oireachtas committee was issued? I would be concerned not only if I was a postmaster or somebody working in or using a post office locally, but if I was a businessperson on the high street of a small town or village to hear that the commercial and trading businesses are moving out of small rural towns into supermarkets based in larger county and provincial centres. Where does that leave my small town and small towns around me because this is State-sponsored migration of business and people will surely follow? Communities have suffered the loss of many services over the past number of years. The closure of schools, banks, Garda stations and local businesses has resulted in a reduction in infrastructure and identity for communities. The loss of these services, coupled with emigration, has meant that the heart has been ripped out of many communities. The post office network is part of the fabric of many communities in cities, towns and especially in rural areas. Therefore, the protection of the post office network should be viewed as a vital and intrinsic part of the campaign to hold our local communities together. Our post office network should perhaps be considered and renamed the public services access network.

As a member of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Transport and Communications, I was part of the working group that drafted a report on the future of our post office network. It laid out a number of recommendations as to how the post office network should be made viable. Given the social benefit of personal contact that exists between post office staff and their customers, the committee recommended that other Government services be made available through the post office network. Considering the isolation that can exist in our society today, especially among older people and in rural Ireland, it seems appropriate that Government services should be moved to a facility that people are comfortable with and have confidence in. These payments could include motor tax renewals, hospital charges, business rates, rents and other Government payment services.

It is also important that communities be given adequate notice of their local post offices being in danger of closure. This news has been sprung on communities too often, leaving it too late to reverse the decision. The Oireachtas report suggests that an amber light warning system be put in place to alert local areas that their post offices are at risk of closure and to allow communities to respond.

It is clear that the social welfare contract is vital for the survival of the post office network. As highlighted by a Grant Thornton report, if the social welfare contract was lost, more than 550 post office closures could be expected. Even if the social welfare contract was kept at a reduced rate, there would be well over 400 post offices at risk of closure. To maintain the post office network, the full retention of the social welfare contract is necessary. We should also remember that An Post set up and successfully ran the national lottery at a profit, yet it was taken from An Post by the Government.

There is an onus on the Government to work with An Post to develop a post office network that is efficient and of maximum benefit to the community it serves. The programme for Government agreed by Fine Gael and Labour almost three years ago stated: "We will ensure that the network of post offices around the country is maintained and that communities have access to adequate postal services in their locality". It is time for the Government to live up to this commitment and ensure that the post office network is maintained.

There is also an onus on An Post to examine its business model. I agree with the Minister's suggestion that it could usefully meet, for example, the Irish League of Credit Unions, ILCU, to explore a mutually beneficial arrangement to make credit union services more easily accessible by members. This is all the more vital as local bank branches close down. Neither the Government, society nor An Post can or should attempt to halt electronic communications or electronic funds transfers, EFTs, although it is disturbing to hear stories of people being forced by the Department of Social Protection to nominate bank accounts. However, we have a nationwide post office structure and a trusted brand with easy access for citizens. In many cases, it is one of the few public service facilities available to locals. The post office network and this Technical Group motion deserve and should receive all of our support.