Brendan Ryan (Dublin North, Labour)
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I, together with my colleague, Deputy Kevin Humphreys, welcome the opportunity to speak on this matter and I acknowledge the presence of Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin. My position is simple. I thank the Minister of State for attending on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Varadkar. I would like the Minister, given the State's share in Aer Lingus and the Dublin Airport Authority, to request that the company and the trustees of the Irish Airlines Superannuation Scheme, IASS, include deferred members, that is, those who have retired but are not yet in receipt of their pensions, in any further negotiations towards resolving the pension deficit concerns. We understand negotiations are at an advanced stage but decisions are being made which are affecting the approximately 3,900 deferred members and they have had no input into the process. They feel their interests are not being represented in the process. Many of these deferred members were actively encouraged to take early retirement by management as recently as last year.

According to people to whom I have spoken and who have contacted me, they are facing a potential cut of 50% to 60% in their pension benefits as a result of proposals currently on the table. This is a massive cut for people. It must also be noted that it was compulsory for these members to pay into the superannuation scheme in the first place. It is also worth noting that many of these workers were then encouraged to take early retirement.

Will the Minister intervene and work with all the stakeholders involved to ensure the voice of the deferred members is heard? There is a basic issue of fairness at stake which needs to be addressed.

Kevin Humphreys (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I welcome the opportunity to raise this matter along with Deputy Ryan. No one wants to see a strike in Dublin Airport or in Shannon or Cork. I hope the pensions dispute can be resolved by agreement as otherwise it would greatly affect the tourism industry.

I discussed this matter today with Deputy Ó Ríordáin and we were looking at the figures. When one takes into consideration Aer Lingus, the Dublin Airport Authority and others, approximately 5,800 people will be affected by this, and in that sense I mean deferred members. Those with deferred pensions, as a result of cost-cutting and restructuring within the company, took redundancy and, by doing so, have helped the company return to profitability. Members who have left employment but are not yet on pension have no power. They have no representation. They cannot close the airport and are facing a much reduced pension entitlement.

I am not asking for special treatment but for fairness for the former workers. The deferred members have no access to the industrial relations mechanisms of the State. They have been frozen out. Will the Minister of State take this matter up with his colleagues to ensure that, in the interests of fairness, the interests of those members are protected?

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank the two Deputies for raising this important issue.

I should make it clear that the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport has no function in regard to the administration of the Irish Airlines Superannuation Scheme, IASS. The resolution of the funding difficulties in the IASS is primarily a matter for the trustees, the members of the scheme, the companies participating in the scheme and the regulator for such pension schemes, which is the Pensions Board.

There are many features of the IASS scheme that make it quite distinctive. One is the fact that the scheme has a very high proportion of deferred and pensioned members compared with active members. Only the active members and their employers are still paying contributions into the scheme.

Both Deputies have raised the issue of representation of deferred and pensioner members. It should be pointed out that the trustees of the scheme, who are central to any solution of the funding difficulties, are required by law to act in the best interests of all the members. On that basis the trustees have to take account of the interests of the deferred and pensioner members in any proposals they make.

The Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation is responsible for labour and industrial relations policy and the Department of Social Protection is responsible for pension policy. Pension related matters are increasingly arising in industrial relations disputes, and the issue of how pensioners and deferred members are represented in the negotiations around such disputes is an issue. I am aware that this is a matter that is under active discussion between the two Departments concerned. The Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation has stated recently that it is actively considering issues in relation to the provision of access to former employees, including retired workers, to the industrial relations machinery of the State under the Industrial Relations Acts.

Another particular feature of the IASS is the fact that it is a multi-employer scheme involving the Dublin Airport Authority, Aer Lingus, the Shannon Airport Authority and SR Technics. There are around 14,800 members in the scheme, which is now closed to new members. It is estimated that Aer Lingus membership constitutes around 69% of the total, with DAA-SAA representing 26% and the former SRT workers representing 5%.

The scheme currently has a substantial and unsustainable deficit and the Minister, Deputy Varadkar, has encouraged the parties to continue to use the State's labour relations machinery to resolve the difficulties. The parties participated in extensive discussions with the assistance of the Labour Relations Commission and the Labour Court to identify solutions. In May of last year, the Labour Court issued recommendations on the matter, including separate recommendations in regard to Aer Lingus and the DAA. A range of meetings involving the parties have taken place since then.

The first step in the process of implementing a solution to the funding difficulties is for the trustees of the scheme to submit a funding proposal to the Pensions Board, as required under the Pension Acts. The trustees announced on 14 February last that they have decided in principle on a number of changes to address the funding difficulties. I welcome this first step as I believe this will assist the parties to refocus on workable solutions to the funding problems in the scheme.

The proposed measures include a number of cuts to current and future pension benefits, which would affect all categories of scheme members, including active members, deferred pensioners and pensioners. In their letter to the employers and the unions, the trustees formally requested the employers and the unions to give appropriate consideration to the position of the deferred members in further discussions.

The problems with this scheme have been well recognised for many years and must be resolved. This is in the interests of all members of the scheme. Now that the trustees have issued their proposals, I would urge all parties to engage again, utilising the State's labour relations machinery where necessary. Any industrial action would not help such a process but rather inconvenience passengers and damage the financial position of the companies, which will ultimately, along with the scheme members, have to contribute to the resolution to the problems of the scheme.

Brendan Ryan (Dublin North, Labour)
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I thank the Minister of State for his response. I welcome that he said that the Deputy of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation actively considering issues in regard to the provision of access to former employees generally. However, this will take some time in terms of changes to the law and it will not benefit the workers in Aer Lingus at this time. I ask that the Minister would use the influence that comes with being a considerable stakeholder in the companies to request that the deferred members would be included in the process. The recent vote from SIPTU workers for industrial action over this issue highlights the need for further and more intensive negotiations. The Minister of State can understand the frustration of the deferred members, who number such a high proportion of the overall members, having to sit back, not being involved in the process and not having a voice.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Sure.

Brendan Ryan (Dublin North, Labour)
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I encourage the Department to see what, if anything, can be done at this stage to ensure their voices are heard.

Kevin Humphreys (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I thank the Minister of State for his response. I point out that the deferred pensioners cannot utilise the labour relations machinery of the State, where necessary, nor can they go on strike. They are very much powerless and without a voice. Many of them are facing up to a 50% reduction in their pension benefits. Aer Lingus has said it will hold an extraordinary general meeting to seek approval for a once-off contribution of €140 million, if agreed.

It stressed that those contributions will not be made without shareholders' approval.

What way will the Minister vote with the State's 25% shareholding? Will he ensure the interests of the deferred pensioners are protected? Those workers who retired early were convinced to do so on the assurance of their future pensions and, by doing so, they have helped the airline to return to profitability. Are they now to be thrown under the bus?

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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First, as I pointed out, the Minister has no function in regard to the administration of the scheme. However, I accept what both Deputies have said and I accept the point about the frustration of the members, especially those who have paid into the scheme. People want to know what their pension rights will be when the time comes to draw their pensions.

I want to put on the record that the trustees must represent all sections, and they cannot just represent one part of this. That is the legislation and, under law, they have to do that. I would hope that, with the new proposals, the trustees can use the mechanisms of State to try to resolve this problem. There is a massive deficit of €760 million that has to be dealt with. In March, we are coming to the kick-off of the tourist season. It would be in no one's interest, neither the country's, the company's nor the members', to have a strike. I hope all sides can try to resolve this very serious situation in the best interests of the country and particularly of the members.