Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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108. To ask the Minister for Social Protection her plans to reform the rent supplement scheme; if her attention has been drawn to reports that many tenants are being asked to pay top-up payments to landlords for rent that is above the maximum allowance limit under the scheme; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [3957/14]

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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The purpose of this question is to ascertain the current position regarding the transfer from rent allowance to housing assistance payments

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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There are approximately 80,000 recipients of rent supplement at present. Just over €344 million has been provided for the scheme in the 2014 Estimates. The Department has no evidence of widespread or systemic false declarations of rent supplement through the use of illegal top-ups. The tenant, landlord or landlord's agent must complete the rent supplement application form, which includes the amount of rent, and declare that the information provided is correct and accurate. The Department's form clearly states that making a false statement or withholding information may lead to prosecution.

In June 2012, the Department introduced powers of inquiry for staff to formally request and oblige landlords to provide information in respect of rent supplement tenants, principally to verify the agreed rent and existence of the tenancy. Any instance of false declarations should be reported to the Department, which has specific legislative powers to deal with such offences. In July 2013, the Government approved the introduction of the housing assistance payment scheme as part of the reform of the rent supplement scheme. Under this new scheme, responsibility for recipients of rent supplement with a long-term housing need will transfer from the Department to local authorities using the housing assistance payment scheme.

Officials in my Department are working with their counterparts in the Department of Environment, Community and Local Government, which is leading the project, to develop proposals to give effect to this transfer. It is intended that the scheme will be piloted in early 2014 in the Limerick local authority area, with further roll-out to selected authorities during the year. The Department has recently introduced an amendment to the household budgeting facility, which is operated by An Post on behalf of the Department. This will assist local authorities in the collection of rents and will facilitate the housing assistance payment pilot.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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A commitment to provide for the transfer from the rent supplement scheme to the housing assistance payment scheme was included in the programme for Government. Three years on, the Government has announced that the new scheme will be piloted initially in Limerick. When I spoke to officials from Limerick City Council yesterday, they were unable to tell me when the pilot will start.

I want to ask a few specific questions on this matter. When will the transition start? When will the pilot start? More importantly, when does the Government anticipate that the transition process throughout the country will be complete?

Will all those in receipt of rent supplement for more than 18 months transfer automatically or will only a percentage of them transfer to the HAP? Will staff from the Department of Social Protection be deployed as part of the move to the HAP to assist the local authorities to implement it because they tell me they do not have the resources? The Minister has previously stated that she would be anxious to see rent payment by way of deduction at source from social welfare. Is that still her position?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The transition process for this has been exceptionally difficult because, as the Deputy will appreciate, there are 44 local authority rent schemes and associated computer systems, all of which are different. We would like rent supplement to be properly transferred to local authorities. The disadvantage of rent supplement for somebody who is unemployed is that it constitutes an unemployment trap because if they get offered employment they lose all their rent supplement. That is what lies behind the idea of transferring it to the local authorities. The local authorities, the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government and the County and City Managers Association have been working very intensively in recent years to introduce the HAP proposal. As I said on my reply, I expect the Limerick pilot to commence by the end of the first quarter in 2014 - that is what has been indicated to me.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Deputy asked about direct deduction at source. We have amended the social welfare legislation on household budgeting, which has major implications for the local authorities. They found that people involved in rent supplement through the RAS were signing in to the household budgeting system to have their deductions taken from their social welfare payment with their agreement but were then leaving it because they did not need to refer to the local authority if they decided to leave it and were therefore falling into arrears.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister. I must call Deputy O'Dea and will come back to the Minister for the final reply.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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We made an amendment to the legislation to ensure if they wish to leave it they must get the permission of the local authority. That will be of very significant assistance to the local authorities.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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The rent supplement was initially supposed to be a short-term panacea to address short-term homelessness. However, it would now appear to be the cornerstone of the Government's policy on social housing given that some 55,000 people have been on rent supplement for more than 18 months. The Minister stated that the Government had provided for just under €400 million and it cost €414 million last year. The State has spent billions of euro on this scheme. Last year the top 20 landlord recipients received €5 million between them. One character received €578,000 directly from the State in respect of 114 apartments. Has any thought been given to what the State is getting in return? In the first instance that money would be better spent on the provision of social housing. If that is not possible for some reason, then surely the State should be seeking to get something tangible back in return for the taxpayers' money that is being lavished into the coffers of private landlords.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I am delighted to hear the Deputy identifying the problems with the rent supplement because during the time of the previous Government the rent supplement became to go-to position and local authorities basically pulled out of being housing providers. Part of that was because local authority estates, some in the Deputy's area and some in mine, had built up problems which the local authorities found very difficult to manage. We are now trying to rectify an inadequate situation we inherited from the previous Government -----

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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The problem now is that there are no houses.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----and to transfer responsibility for housing to the local authority housing department, where it should be, and therefore allow people on a local authority supplemented rent to access employment because at the moment it is an employment trap. With the change in legislation, we have now offered a very attractive amendment to the local authorities because all around the country, in Dublin, Limerick and all the big areas, local authorities have been worried at the amount of rent arrears that have built up. Some of that happened simply because of the lack of legislation. I hope we are now on a different course. The provision of housing is very important and the Deputy’s colleague from Limerick, my party colleague, the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government with responsibility for housing, Deputy Jan O’Sullivan, will answer detailed questions on that topic.