Dáil debates

Wednesday, 22 January 2014

Other Questions

Freedom of Information Remit

10:10 am

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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7. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform when and if the freedom of information legislation will be extended to include Irish Water within its remit. [2667/14]

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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As the Minister knows, the Opposition in this House refused to take part in the debate on the establishment of Irish Water because of the absolute dearth of information on this Government initiative. We found out a few days ago that as part of the expenditure of more than €200 million on the establishment of Irish Water, some 300 workers at Irish Water had been taken to a yoga laughter therapy workshop. Many citizens feel the people and this House are being laughed at. There is no accountability for this body through parliamentary questions, the freedom of information regime or the Comptroller and Auditor General. I would like the Minister to explain what he intends to do on the freedom of information front.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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As the Deputy knows, I have responsibility for the area of freedom of information. He is also aware that I indicated last December during the Committee Stage debate on the Freedom of Information Bill 2013 that it was my intention that Irish Water should be made subject to freedom of information legislation at an early stage following the enactment of that legislation. On the basis of recent developments instanced by the Deputy, following the commencement of the Irish Water Services (No. 2) Act 2013 and taking into account the likely timetable for the enactment of the new Bill I am progressing through the House, I have concluded that arrangements should be made as expeditiously as possible for Irish Water to come under freedom of information legislation from its legal establishment date in 2013. Rather than awaiting the enactment of the new freedom of information Bill, I have decided to utilise the powers under the Freedom of Information Act 1997 in respect of Irish Water. The Act provides that in these circumstances a positive resolution of both Houses is required before an order can come into force and freedom of information legislation actually applies to the public body concerned. I propose, subject to the approval of each House of the Oireachtas in due course, to give Irish Water 30 days following the making of the order to make the administrative arrangements required to be fully compliant with freedom of information legislation.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I welcome this announcement by the Minister. There is a sense of tremendous outrage. People feel that when the Government was deciding on the road it was going to go down, it adopted the wrong model by choosing Bord Gáis as the lead organisation in this regard. It is a question of a certain kind of semi-State culture. In fairly recent times we saw Pádraig McManus and other executives in the semi-State sector being paid more than €600,000 per annum. Will the freedom of information measure announced by the Minister be retrospective? Will Deputies be able to delve into spending already taking place such as the €86 million being spent on consultants and the €15.7 million being spent through the local authorities, as we heard last night? Will we know whether the local property tax has been utilised to fund this vast expenditure on the part of Irish Water? Will this measure be retrospective? Will the applicability of the freedom of information regime to this organisation be confined to a limited period? Some reports have suggested it will not extend beyond 2017. Will we be refused access to information on the affairs of Irish Water after that date on the basis of commercial sensitivity, etc.?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy's first question was related to whether this would be retrospective. It is my intention to provide for the inclusion of Irish Water in the freedom of information regime from its date of legal establishment as a subsidiary of Bord Gáis Energy - 17 July 2013. I have instructed my officials to prepare an order to that effect. I hope we can provide time for it to be considered next week, if the House is agreeable and the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel to the Government has cleared the drafting of the order.

The Deputy's second question was related to whether Irish Water would be covered by the freedom of information regime for a temporary period. When I was asked the same question at a press conference last week, I indicated that I did not think the freedom of information regime should be like the hokey cokey, with people stepping in and out again. Once it is in, it will stay in, unless, of course, there is some issue to be dealt with in the future. It is certainly not our intention that there would be a competition.

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Is the Minister referring to privatisation?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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As long as it remains a monopoly - the absolute decision of the Government is that it will remain a State monopoly - it should be subject to freedom of information legislation.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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On the related matter of parliamentary questions in this House, we are familiar with the very unsatisfactory performance of Departments like the Department of Health when we inquire about HSE matters and the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport when we inquire about Irish Rail matters.

Deputies who inquire about matters related to State or semi-state bodies, such as the Health Service Executive or Irish Rail, are referred to the relevant organisation, which will then provide some fragmentary information after a long period has elapsed. Given his responsibility for reform of the public service, is the Minister also interested in doing something to address this matter?

I note the clár features a Bill in the name of the Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts which relates to accountability to the Comptroller and Auditor General. Will the Minister also pursue this matter?

10:20 am

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy's first set of questions, which relate to the processes of the House, are more appropriate to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges or Oireachtas Commission, probably the former. While I will be mindful of any recommendation emanating from the House, as a member of the Government I should not dictate the manner in which people are held to account in the Houses. We have had solid evidence in recent weeks that the new committee system is working effectively and there is growing confidence that State companies can be brought before the line committee, whether in the area of the environment, health or anything else, to be asked probing questions. This should be the norm in terms of parliamentary activity and I suspect that will be the case.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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As Deputy Lucinda Creighton, who tabled Question No. 8, is not present, we will move on to Question No. 9.

Question No. 8 replied to with Written Answers.