Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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124. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills the percentage of all primary schools with fewer than five mainstream teachers; the cumulative effect of the budgets he has introduced on the pupil-teacher ratios in these schools; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2609/14]

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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In light of the Minister's promises when Opposition spokesperson for education to protect pupil-teacher ratios in schools, I would like him to give an outline of the percentage of all our schools which have five teachers or fewer. Also, what he has done - or has not done, more to the point - to protect pupil-teacher ratios in those schools since he came to office? I ask him to give a cumulative account of exactly what has happened with respect to the pupil-teacher ratios in schools with one, two, three and four teachers.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I thank the Deputy for tabling this question. Under budget 2012, there is a phased increase in the number of pupils required to gain and retain a classroom teaching post in primary schools that have 86 or fewer pupils.

The Department's published statistics show that there were 1,532 schools, or 48% of all primary schools, with fewer than five mainstream teachers. Such schools would have up to 114 pupils. One hundred and twenty-five schools were due to lose a classroom post as a result of the budget 2012 measure, and this was reduced to 79 schools following the appeals process. That would probably have indicated, in most cases, that there was due to be an increase in population rather than a decrease. The average class size in these 79 schools is currently 21.3 pupils. This compares with the national average of 24.7 pupils. A further 42 schools did not gain a classroom post as a result of the 2012 budget measure.

The Government recognises that small schools are an important part of the social fabric of rural communities and will continue to be so.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for his response. He has indicated that 48% of all primary schools have fewer than five teachers, yet we constantly hear the refrain from him and the Government that in office he has managed to protect the pupil-teacher ratio. However, he is admitting to the fact here today that since he came to office he has very significantly increased the pupil-teacher ratio for schools with one, two, three and four teachers, accounting for 48% of all primary schools. In September 2011 a two-teacher school needed 14 students to retain its two teachers, a three-teacher school needed 51 students to retain its three teachers and a four-teacher school needed 81 students to retain its four teachers. Under the Minister's stewardship the number of students those schools need to retain their teachers has increased by six for two-teacher schools, by five for three-teacher schools and by five for four-teacher schools also. Why has the Minister targeted the smaller schools in particular, which, as he said, make up nearly half of our primary schools? Alongside that, we have seen cuts over two years to the minor works grants and summer works scheme, the cumulative effect of which is that many of those schools are in crisis and many are considering whether they have a future.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Both my predecessor and I had to take into account the rapidly changing nature of the budgetary position on the one hand and the fact that the overall primary school population was growing and is continuing to grow. The measures that I introduced were balanced against that particular background and the proof of the pudding is in the eating. The pupil-teacher ratio in those schools is much more favourable than it is in schools generally.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister is showing a complete lack of appreciation of the demands in those schools with fewer teachers. In many instances multi-class teaching is taking place. One teacher could be taking up to three classes. In such schools it is important, therefore, that the pupil-teacher ratio is lower.

What is the Minister's agenda in putting the burden of the cuts on the half of schools that do not have the capacity to take it? They have fewer families going to the school and more classes per teacher. After withdrawing the minor works grant and for the two years when the summer works scheme was not in place, there was a five-point increase in the pupil-teacher ratio while larger schools have not had an increase in the pupil-teacher ratio. The Minister has loaded it on the half that finds it most difficult to survive because resources are more stretched. That is the impact of the Minister's policy and he needs to assess it. The cumulative effect over the past three years of the Minister's stewardship is that smaller schools around the country are struggling to survive and many wonder how, and if, they have a future.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I came into office at the time of great difficulty because of the financial circumstances in which this country finds itself and against a background of a growing student population. I had to try to balance the concept of fairness and equity across the system. That I took the measure consciously in 2012, and gave notice of it for three years, of which this will be the last, was a signal to those schools in respect of how their pupil-teacher ratios would be altered. It involves multi-class arrangements in one room but that is the choice has been made by the school in that area. The capitation grant still assumes 60 pupils in those schools and that has not been touched. It is a considerable resource.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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It has been reduced every year.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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No, I am referring to the threshold of 60, which has not been touched.