Dáil debates

Wednesday, 15 January 2014

Ceisteanna - Questions - Priority Questions

Northern Ireland Issues

2:30 pm

Photo of Brendan SmithBrendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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1. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade the next steps to be taken to secure agreement among the panel of parties in the Northern Ireland Executive on the Haass proposals; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1505/14]

Photo of Seán CroweSeán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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2. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade if he will provide an assessment of the Haass proposals; and the actions his Department intends to take to deal with the issues of the flags and emblems, the past and parading in the context of the Good Friday Agreement. [1502/14]

Photo of Maureen O'SullivanMaureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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3. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade the reason behind the failure of the recent Northern Ireland talks; the extent of the role the Irish Government played in the talks; the positive aspects that came as a result of the Irish Government's involvement; if any progress can be attributed to Ireland's role in the talks; where the progress is on the issue of flags and parades, including legacy issues; and the extent to which the prisoner issue and revoking of licences was addressed. [1504/14]

Photo of Brendan SmithBrendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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This is a very important issue and I compliment Ambassador Richard Haass and Dr. Meghan O'Sullivan on their work with the five parties in Northern Ireland. It is extremely regrettable that the two Unionist parties have not agreed to the proposals put forward. I am of the view that those proposals are good and important and can be built upon. I hope the Tánaiste will be in a position to provide assurance to the effect that the Government will take a hands-on approach in respect of the efforts to try to reach an agreement on these very important issues. There is an urgency with regard to this matter, particularly in view of the tension, conflict and violence we all witnessed in 2013.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 3, inclusive, together.

As Deputies are aware, the panel of parties talks on parades, flags and contending with the past, under the chairmanship of Dr. Richard Haass and the vice chairmanship of Dr. Meghan O’Sullivan, concluded in the early hours of New Year's Eve. I commend Dr. Haass and Dr. O'Sullivan on the energy, commitment and vision they brought to their work. The panel of parties talks arose on foot of an initiative by First Minister Peter Robinson and Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness last May, when they established a working group of representatives from each of the five Northern Ireland Executive parties to examine the contentious issues of flags, parades and the past. The establishment of the working group formed part of the Executive's Together: Building a United Community strategy aimed at improving community relations and continuing Northern Ireland's journey towards a more united and reconciled society. Dr. Haass and Dr. O'Sullivan started work in September 2013 with the objective of concluding agreement by the end of last year. They undertook an ambitious programme of work, including an extensive process of consultation with wider society between September and November, which proved particularly valuable. Following four earlier rounds of discussions, the talks entered an intensive political phase in the run-up to Christmas and between Christmas and the new year. Dr. Haass and Dr. O'Sullivan circulated a number of draft texts to the parties, with a seventh and final version submitted to the five parties in the early hours of New Year's Eve.

I will briefly outline to the House the main provisions of the final Haass-O'Sullivan proposals. On parades, the proposals recognise parading as an important cultural and historical tradition for many in Northern Ireland which enjoys protection under European and international human rights law. They also note the wide variety of other rights potentially affected by parades and other events and call for a new consensus based on rights, responsibilities and relationships.

The proposals provide for devolution of responsibility for parades to the Northern Ireland Executive which would require legislation at Westminster and in the Northern Ireland Assembly. Such legislation would establish two new bodies which would take over responsibilities currently held by the Parades Commission.

An office for parades, select commemorations and related protests, would have responsibility for receiving event notifications and promoting dialogue and mediation among event organisers and local communities. An authority for public events adjudication would in some cases set conditions on the relatively small number of events which prove contentious. Determinations would be made by a seven-member panel led by a legally-qualified person. Affected parties could pursue an internal review and judicial review. A new code of conduct would be enshrined in legislation by the Northern Ireland Assembly.

Discussion on flags and emblems proved the most difficult. There was no agreed approach reached on the flying of flags on official buildings or the unofficial display of flags and emblems in public spaces. It was recognised by the panel of parties that these issues are closely linked to larger debates about sovereignty, identity and related matters which they judged to be beyond the remit of the talks. The proposals provide for a commission on identity, culture and tradition, to hold public discussions on those issues throughout Northern Ireland. The commission’s remit would not be limited to flags and emblems and would include consultations on Irish and other languages, including Ulster Scots; a Bill of Rights; gender; public holidays, possibly including a day of remembrance or reflection; and memorabilia and other items in public buildings. The commission, which would comprise of MLAs and non-political members, would report within 18 months. The First Minister and Deputy First Minister would bring any recommendations of the commission receiving broad support to the Northern Ireland Executive for further action.

During the period of the talks substantial progress was made on agreeing an approach to dealing with the legacy of the past. The final proposals make special provision for victims and survivors, affirming that their individual choices should be paramount wherever possible. The proposals welcome the ongoing review of the Victims and Survivors Service and pledged to promptly consider recommended reforms, including the establishment of a comprehensive mental trauma service. The proposals establish a historical investigations unit with the full investigative powers of the PSNI, to take over the Troubles–related deaths cases at present within the remit of the Historical Enquiries Team and the historical unit of the Police Ombudsman of Northern Ireland. The proposals provide that where the evidence warrants, the HIU could refer cases to the Public Prosecution Service. The HIU would consider remaining HET cases in chronological order and in extreme cases of old age or illness, cases could be brought forward out of sequence. Once the HIU has completed reviews of all outstanding HET and PONI cases, it would consider requests for further review of cases previously examined by the HET or PONI. Should resources permit, it would also consider requests for reviews of cases involving serious injury but not death.

The proposals call for an independent commission for information retrieval to enable victims and survivors to seek and privately receive information about conflict-related events. The ICIR would not provide amnesty for those who come forward with information about the conflict. It would provide those coming forward with limited immunity, also known as inadmissibility, for statements given to the ICIR. The information provided to the ICIR could not be used in court but prosecution would still be possible, based on evidence obtained through other means. The ICIR would also use information it recovers, as well as public records and interviews it conducts independently, to assess the presence of certain patterns or themes involving paramilitary organisations or governments in conflict-related cases. It would also report on the degree of co-operation with this process by governments and paramilitary organisations. The proposals call for public statements of acknowledgment by those involved in the conflict, encouraging them to take responsibility for what they have done and to express remorse for the pain they have caused. Under the proposals, the Executive would pledge to facilitate the collection of individual narratives of the conflict and to establish an archive for their preservation. As Deputies are aware, the Government, in common with the British Government, was not directly involved in the talks process. The Government has, however, provided ongoing support and encouragement to the political parties throughout the process, working closely with the British Government. I take this opportunity to acknowledge the close engagement of the US Administration throughout this process and to place the Government's appreciation on the record of the House.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House

Throughout the talks, I have made clear the Government’s view to all participants and stakeholders that there is now a unique opportunity to make further progress towards advancing reconciliation and the creation of a truly reconciled and prosperous society in Northern Ireland. That remains the Government’s view and we will continue our engagement with the Northern Ireland political parties and the British Government to that end. While acknowledging that the issues to be addressed in the talks are difficult and contentious, the Government encouraged the parties to be ambitious in their approach and to engage actively with the process. I welcome that very significant progress was made within the talks process over a short period on a number of the most difficult issues that face society in Northern Ireland. The priority now should be to safeguard and give practical effect to what has been achieved. I welcome that the five political parties in the Executive have been meeting to discuss the next steps and that they are working together with the common goal of reaching a final agreement as soon as possible.

I wish to send a clear message of support from this House to the five Northern Ireland Executive parties as they continue the vital task which they have set in train. The Government, along with the British Government, will play its role in partnership with the Northern Ireland parties to the full as they complete their work on an agreement. It is in all our shared interests to see Northern Ireland make further progress towards reconciliation in line with the vision of the Good Friday Agreement. Our support and our work in this regard continue unabated.

2:35 pm

Photo of Brendan SmithBrendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Tánaiste for his detailed reply. He outlined the substantial progress that has been made. I take this opportunity to compliment the SDLP and Sinn Féin parties for their positive approach to the negotiations. Unfortunately, the two Unionist parties have rejected the proposals put forward by Ambassador Dr. Haass and Dr. O'Sullivan. It is hoped that the proposed talks will change that attitude. I also recognise the important work of the Alliance Party.

The last day we had oral questions I expressed an opinion, which unfortunately turned out to be correct, that it would be very difficult to reach an agreement without the hands on and direct involvement of the two sovereign Governments. We all know the Downing Street Declaration, the Good Friday Agreement of 1998 and the St. Andrews Agreement were driven by the two Governments, working with the parties in Northern Ireland. Will the Tánaiste reconsider the position of the Government and, indeed, of the British Government and have our State directly represented by Government in these negotiations? Has the Tánaiste had any direct contact with Ambassador Haass or Dr. O'Sullivan since they went back to the United States?

2:45 pm

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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There has been hands on involvement by the Government in these talks. From the very moment Dr. Haass and Dr. O'Sullivan were appointed, we were in contact with them. I met with them before they commenced their work and on a number of occasions while they were doing their work. Over the Christmas to new year period when the talks were in their intensive stage, I was in regular telephone contact with Dr. Haass, leaders of political parties and with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. I spoke with Dr. Haass directly following the completion of his work. We are in continuing contact with him and with his team. I met with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland on the morning of New Year's Eve following the completion of the talks. I met with her since then and I expect to meet her tomorrow evening. I met with the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister last Friday. The Irish and British Governments are committed to working together very closely. The Government supports the proposals that have emerged from the talks and would like to see them implemented. We will continue to work to advance progress on these issues.

Photo of Seán CroweSeán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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Dr. Haass made it clear that the proposals he put together were part of a package. I think the proposals were the seventh draft and they reflected many long hours of hard work and compromise. Does the Tánaiste accept that the final proposals and documents were all about compromise and mutual agreement and were not partisan? I do not think they reflect any one party's view of how to resolve the situation but were collective. Dr. Haass pointed out that the negotiations have now concluded and parties need to respond and move to implementation. The Good Friday Agreement and the ancillary agreements provide the context to address parades, identities and the past. Does the Tánaiste accept that non-implementation means that these issues will continue to bog down not only political moves forward, but also the overall peace process itself? As Deputy Smith said, a number of parties have agreed to them, including Sinn Féin, the Alliance Party and the SDLP.

The Tánaiste said he was in touch with Dr. Haass and so on but the optics were wrong in this regard. Some commentators almost suggested that a sort of ambiguous role was being taken by the two Governments and that they were actually hard-hearted in regard to their involvement and were stepping back. Does the Tánaiste agree the optics in that regard possibility did not help the situation?

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I do not agree with that portrayal of it. I think that is inaccurate. The Irish Government was directly involved in this process. The Deputy must remember this process was initiated in Northern Ireland. This proposal was made by the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister, involving all the five political parties in the Northern Ireland Executive. The parties in Northern Ireland, the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister invited Dr. Haass and Dr. O'Sullivan to chair these talks. It was always intended that these would be talks between the parties in Northern Ireland. The role of the two Governments on this occasion was to provide support to that, which we did by keeping in regular contact. Over the Christmas to new year period, I was in contact with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland almost on a daily basis.

I was in Northern Ireland - in Belfast - on 30 and 31 December when the talks closed. I was in very close contact with Dr. Haass and the party leaders. The Secretary of State and I have met since then. We have spoken about the responsibilities of the two Governments as co-guarantors of the agreement, one of which is to provide continuing support. The day after the outcome of the talks became known, I described the failure to reach agreement as a step not yet taken rather than a step back. I still take that view. I will continue to work with the Secretary of State and the parties in the hope that the additional step will be taken.

2:50 pm

Photo of Maureen O'SullivanMaureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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It must have been extremely frustrating and disappointing for Dr. Haass and Professor O'Sullivan that all the toing and froing, the journeys across the Atlantic and the issuing of various drafts did not come to fruition. There was no resolution in the form of an agreement that could be accepted by all sides. We know that the flags, parades and legacy issues are very serious. As long as the prisoner issue, which we have discussed previously, is not resolved, prisoners in the North will face injustice and peace will be threatened. As the Tánaiste knows, a group from the Dáil has been visiting republican and loyalist prisoners in the North. It is obvious that there are issues in this regard. When licences are revoked without reasons being given, people are left on remand for three or four years and draconian conditions are proposed when releases are being considered. It does not contribute to the process we are discussing. This aspect of the matter must also be addressed.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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As the Deputy has acknowledged, the prisoners issue was not directly involved in the recent talks. She is aware I have raised a number of these issues with the Secretary of State and the Minister of Justice in Northern Ireland. As she knows, some of these cases are at different stages in various court and review processes. Obviously, we have to be mindful of where they are in the court situation. It must be said that we have seen some very worrying activity in recent months. I am sure everybody in this House will roundly condemn attempts to place bombs or engage in activity of that kind. The attacks on PSNI officers, for example, have no place in our society and have no support of any kind. Dr. Haass and Professor O'Sullivan made significant progress. Their comprehensive document covers some issues that have been contentious and difficult for a long period. We need to press forward with that now. As I have said, I am in contact with the Secretary of State. Since the break and over the new year period, I have spoken to the leaders of all the political parties in Northern Ireland. I intend to continue that dialogue. We are in continuing contact with the Haass-O'Sullivan team. We are also in contact with the US Administration, which has been very helpful throughout this process.

Photo of Brendan SmithBrendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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There has never been a breakthrough in Northern Ireland without the direct hands-on involvement of the two sovereign Governments. We note the huge contribution the SDLP has made to the progress that has been achieved over the years. That party's leader, Alasdair McDonnell, said in the British House of Commons this day last week that "the Secretary of State will recall that when the Haass process has been mentioned on previous occasions, I have urged a much greater involvement at an earlier stage by both the British and Irish Governments". The Tánaiste mentioned his participation in this process, including his meetings with the Secretary of State and the parties. He seems to have given some urgency to this issue when it was concluding. I would have thought that when the Northern Executive decided to set up a panel of five parties to address this issue, it would not have been opposed to the two sovereign Governments taking a hands-on approach to dealing with the difficult issues that need to be resolved, as everyone else has said.

We need to get away from the violence and thuggery we witnessed on the streets in Belfast and other urban centres in Northern Ireland in 2013.

2:55 pm

Photo of Seán CroweSeán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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We know that Unionist leaders have opposed the implementation of this agreement at this time. They are now saying they want negotiations to continue. Does the Tánaiste believe they are serious about coming to agreement or is this more about the illusion of movement on these matters? Would he accept that they may be more concerned about future elections than trying to resolve this situation? Bearing that in mind, what can the Government do? The Tánaiste has said with regard to the British Government that he will look at it and try to kick-start the talks again. Can the Government act independently regarding some of the matters? I am talking about the Good Friday Agreement and the St. Andrews Agreement. There are a number of outstanding matters that need to be implemented, including the bill of rights, for instance.

Can the Government move ahead with legislation to deal with the area of victims and dealing with the past? Would that be a good idea?

Photo of Maureen O'SullivanMaureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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I agree with the Tánaiste; the last thing anybody wants is a return to violence and everybody would condemn the use of violence to achieve a political opinion. However, people are entitled to hold a different opinion and that is not a reason for putting them in jail. In engaging with the people in the North, we have seen it is very difficult to identify who exactly is calling the shots as it were. In each of our discussions the decision seems to be that it goes to the Minister for Justice and then it is the Secretary of State. The parole commissioners are supposed to be independent and yet we are told the Judiciary has a role and it does not seem to be independent. It is hard to understand where the buck stops. When the Irish and British Governments were involved it brought another impetus that brought about the Good Friday Agreement. We know that other agreements from that time are not being implemented or adhered to. There are quite a number of issues and the involvement of the Irish Government can only do good.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Lest there be any doubt about it, the Government is involved. It is not true, as Deputy Smith suggests, that the Government became involved at the end of this process. At this time last year, along with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Ms Theresa Villiers, MP, I met the First Minister and Deputy First Minister at a time when the flags protest was in a very difficult situation. Considerable progress has been made over the course of the year.

As far as our engagement with the process is concerned, this was initiated in Northern Ireland with five parties involved. Dr. Haass and Professor O'Sullivan were invited to chair these talks by the First Minister and Deputy First Minister. We all have to respect that and work with it. From the time Dr. Haass was appointed, I contacted him by telephone. I met him initially in New York and then subsequently met him here in Dublin. I have maintained regular contact through meeting and by telephone over the course of his work.

The two Governments are the co-guarantors of the Agreement. We are both of one mind that this must succeed. We do not want things slipping back. There are difficult issues that need to be addressed. We are both in contact with the leaders of the political parties and are both in contact with each other. As I have said, I intend to meet the Secretary of State again tomorrow and will discuss the issue further with her. I will continue to remain engaged. I am optimistic that this can be progressed.

To answer Deputy Crowe's question, I believe that all of the parties in Northern Ireland want to see this succeed. Clearly different parties have certain issues and there are compromises, as the Deputy rightly says, that have been reflected in the Agreement. However, I believe that all political parties in Northern Ireland want this to succeed and the two Governments want it to succeed.