Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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97. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills if plans to include the family farm in means test assessments for third level support have now been discontinued; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [50225/13]

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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My question is on whether plans to include the family farm in means test assessments for third level support have been discontinued and whether the Minister will comment on that. As the Minister knows, he made very public comments on this in his role as an Opposition education spokesperson and since he came into this Ministry. It is a source of great concern to self-employed people and to farming families. Once and for all, will the Minister tell us whether it is off the table?

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Once and for all, it is not off the table. There is not agreement as to how it should be implemented and we are looking for agreement. It is a good time to look for agreement because the agriculture community has never done as well as it is doing currently. That means it needs both capital and more people to go into it. At the Cabinet meeting today, we were briefed by the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Coveney, that Ireland is expected to be the fastest growing milk producer when the cap is removed from the dairy sector in 2015. There will be something of the order of a 15% increase in milk yields and the farming community is currently gearing up for that prospect. There is also much increased employment in the sector, which is great news for this country because this is indigenous produce and the sector employs local people throughout the country.

Some people are in a position, because of the wealth of the families, to make a better contribution or do not need the same level of support as was previously the case, or perhaps was ever the case. As the Deputy knows, under the rules of the system drawn up, although not by my party, savings and surplus resources are not part and parcel of the assessment. Before SUSI was established, we got a telephone call from somebody who was assessing an application for a grant where a farm or a small firm had €300,000 in prize bonds. As that €300,000 was not income-based, it could not be taken into account. That kind of money is meaningful. Essential working capital for a small enterprise or a farm is essential to the operation of that enterprise but surplus funds, including savings, stocks and share or whatever, should be part and parcel of the reckoner. That is my position and that of my party.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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Large savings and funds are relevant to people who are not self-employed as well as to those who are. The Minister could do with a reality check in regard to his assessment of how well the farming community is doing. If he wishes, I can bring him around the farming community in County Donegal or in any other county.

They have just come out of the most difficult winter and spring in recent history. Many families are suffering excessive hardship as a result of that. I remind the Minister of what his colleague, the Minister, Deputy Burton, has done over the course of her tenure in the Department of Social Protection. She has removed the 30% income disregard from families on farm assist. This means that every euro a farmer makes on the farm, working hard to do so, is taken straight off his farm assist payment, which is actually the same level as the dole. I think the Minister would be well served to check that out.

When we debated the means assessment for the self-employed and the farming community at committee level, the Minister indicated to me that he did not envisage that the working capital of a business or farm - land or buildings - would be assessed against the businessperson or farmer when a decision on a grant is being made. He also indicated that the normal throughput would not be assessed in such a manner. As he has done again today, the Minister indicated on that occasion that consideration was being given to assessing high levels of savings for these purposes. That is not specific to the farming community or the business community. It is an issue across the board. I ask the Minister to remove the cloud that has been left hanging over those who are self-employed and those in the farming community by making it clear, in line with what he has said today and at committee level, that the possibility of specifically targeting them is no longer on the table.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I have no difficulty in agreeing with the Deputy. All additional moneys should be taken into account. Obviously, working capital has to be kept in reserve for the operation of a business. We are considering a model that looks at verifiable taxed income and nothing else. As long ago as the 1990s, the de Buitléir report recommended that the base of assessment should be wider from the point of view of equity. It is not a question of having something against the self-employed or targeting farmers. It is being presented as such by people who have their own reasons for doing so.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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It is being presented as such by the Minister.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Not at all.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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That is where this has come from.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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In statistical terms, the farming community is much smaller than the self-employed community.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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Absolutely.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I have consistently made that point. If it is assessed on a wider measure, rather than simply on salary or income, it can be more equitable. This would mean that more people who cannot afford to go to college will get the grants and the supports to enable them to do so. That is all that is at issue here. This is not some kind of crusade against any sector of Irish society.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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I am inclined to agree with the Minister. Many small farmers in this country are in trouble and are finding it difficult to make ends meet. Sadly, the Irish Farmers Association has really only excelled in looking after bigger farmers. If the children of larger farmers who can well afford to pay for third level education are getting assistance, this must be happening at the expense of people from less well-off backgrounds, not nearly enough of whom are gaining access to education. I actually agree with the Minister in this regard.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I welcome the Deputy's support. I will be quite happy to debate this matter further at some future stage. We are trying, in the interests of fairness and equity, to see whether people can afford to make a contribution towards the education of their children - young adults in third level education - that is proportionate to what they have in total. We are taking account of the necessity for working capital in small businesses and in farms.