Dáil debates

Thursday, 21 November 2013

10:15 am

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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8. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the proceeds expected in 2013 and 2014 from the sale of State assets; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [49578/13]

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I asked the Minister to outline the proceeds he expects to receive in 2013 and 2014 from the sale of various State assets such as Bord Gáis, the special dividend from the ESB, the national lottery licence and whatever other assets he has in mind.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I thank the Deputy again. A number of disposals are currently in train under the State assets disposal programme, some of which are likely to result in proceeds being received this year by the companies disposing of the assets. However, the timing of payment of such proceeds to the Exchequer by the companies by way of special dividend, which, as I explained previously, is the vehicle I will use, remains to be decided by Government at this stage, and will depend, inter alia, on when this funding is required by the Exchequer for the projects that are to be supported with these proceeds. The national lottery licence transaction is not part of the disposal programme because it involves the sale of a licence for a fixed time period rather than the disposal of an asset. I have explained previously how that will be dealt with.

No receipts have been provided for in the 2013 budgetary arithmetic in respect of State asset sales and I do not currently envisage any proceeds being required or received by the Exchequer in 2013.

In 2014, as I have constantly stated, I do not propose to set out publicly in advance my expectations of likely proceeds from the sale of State assets, as to do so would obviously signal the price that Government expects to receive in the middle of a sales process, which might influence bidders in submitting their bids rather than seeking to maximise the proceeds from the State asset disposals in question, which is our objective. However, as a provisional measure, a figure of €110 million has been built into the budgetary arithmetic for 2014 for projects to be funded from asset sales, €45 million of which will be used to fund the up-front Exchequer costs associated with the public private partnership programme. We need to put money in place in advance to tee up some projects and the remainder will be used to fund costs associated with the €150 million Exchequer stimulus projects announced in June of this year. It is my intention and hope to announce a further stimulus programme once the quantum of money becomes clear during 2014.

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I acknowledge the Minister's comment. There has been lots of talk over the past year or two about using the proceeds from the sale of State assets for job creation and debt reduction. The Minister trumpeted his great achievement in this regard. To my recollection, this is the first time it has been stated on public record that the Exchequer will receive nothing from the sale of State assets in 2013. This issue has been flagged by the Minister for more than 18 months. We were told money would be generated this year to fund job creation, but he is saying at the end of November that no funds will be recouped under this heading this year. He said the Government will decide what to do with the money that is generated depending on where it needs to plug a hole in future years. He mentioned a sum of €110 million. Is that the special dividend from the ESB? What heading does this come under?

The Minister does not have to disclose the sale price of Bord Gáis, but he has put a figure on the sale of ESB plants in the midlands, notwithstanding the problems with the ESB's pension fund. We need to receive more information on this issue.

10:25 am

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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This is a multi-annual project. The first tranche of moneys that will come in to the Exchequer will be from the sale of the national lottery licence. I have outlined how we are spending €200 million of these moneys, with €50 million for roads, €50 million for the retrofit of local authority houses and €50 million for the schools building programme.

There are two sales processes in train, one of which involves the ESB. There is agreement on the sale of the Marchwood power plant in the United Kingdom, as well as a further shareholding in a Spanish plant. I will give the Deputy the exact quantum of these sales as soon as I get it.

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is interesting that on 15 December Ireland will have exited the troika agreement. Despite everything the Minister and his party said about what Fianna Fáil had committed to in the sale of State assets as part of the three year programme, he has now confirmed that the troika will have left without any proceeds being received from the sale of State assets. Much and all as he tried to blacken us with the claim that we had tried to include the lottery licence in the sale of State assets, we never committed to it in the original memorandum of understanding. Now that the troika has left these shores, he is embarking on the sale of State assets to produce funds for the Exchequer in 2014, 2015 and 2016. It was never part of the three year programme while the troika was here. No funds were received from the sale of State assets during these three years, but the first sale will happen after the troika departs. The Government is in now complete control of State assets, but it will be selling them.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I obviously do not have the same enthusiasm for the sale of State assets as the Deputy. Accordingly, we took a very measured approach to it and he is dead right. The fact that we have not had an extensive sale of State assets is not something about which I am crying. This will be done in a structured way and for the best benefit of the taxpayer. There will be no fire sale or panic. The resources we get from such sales will be utilised in the best interests of the Exchequer and the people to create jobs, boost construction and complete the targets we have set. We have much more freedom to do this now that we have exited the troika regime. We were able to do this because of all the renegotiations we undertook on the dreadful programme negotiated by the collapsing Government of 2010. We have renegotiated the promissory notes, the terms of the loan and the interest rates payable. That has given us flexibility to ensure moneys we raise from the sale of State assets are deployed in the best interests of workers and the people.