Dáil debates

Thursday, 14 November 2013

Ceisteanna - Questions - Priority Questions

Common Agricultural Policy Reform

9:50 am

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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4. To ask the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine the position regarding his consideration of the Common Agricultural Policy programme for Ireland 2014-20; the level of co-funding being proposed for Pillar 2; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [48461/13]

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Many people are anxious about the Common Agricultural Policy, CAP. As the Minister knows, most of the decisions will be made nationally. There is already significant concern about the 18% cut in Pillar 2 payments in real terms, taking inflation into account, but concern is also growing that the Government will not match European money on a 50:50 basis with Exchequer funding. Will the Minister allay farmers' fears and state clearly that there will be 50:50 co-funding of Pillar 2 payments under the new CAP?

10:00 am

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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We are in a process and, before the end of the year, as I have said repeatedly, we will provide full clarity concerning the pillar 1 and pillar 2 payments. Pillar 1 is more straightforward and I have outlined my views on it many times. Some issues need to be decided upon, including whether we introduce a level of coupling, whether to transfer money between pillars, and the levels of support for young farmers.

The Deputy is right to say pillar 2 is more complex. That is because I know how much money I have to spend on pillar 1 and it is just a matter of deciding how to distribute that between farmers. On pillar 2, however, I do not yet know how much money I will have to spend. Some €313 million comes from the EU each year, but I do not know what level of co-funding we will add to that to make up the full rural development fund. I will have to get a Government decision on that but it has not yet been taken.

This assumption that it is the norm to have 50:50 co-funding for rural development is not true. Even in Deputy Ó Cuív's time in government when we had loads of money to spend, we did not provide 50:50 co-funding. Let us be realistic therefore. Even in the good times in Ireland we were not providing 50:50 co-funding for rural development in terms of the average spend on such development over the past seven years.

I am trying to maximise the funding for rural development programmes and the rural economy generally. I will do that as effectively and proactively as I can. I will be talking to my Government colleagues to try to secure the maximum level of funding, but we need to design a rural development programme that reflects the ambitions and challenges of Irish agriculture for the next seven years. I assure the Deputy that I will not be designing a rural development programme which is simply to draw down all the EU money and minimise the Exchequer contribution. I will try to maximise the financial contribution and the effect of the programme that it will fund over the next seven years. The Deputy will see the actual numbers before the end of the year.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I have the figures for the previous programme in front of me. Effectively, it was just under €2.5 billion from Europe and just over €2.3 billion from the Exchequer, so it was a 53:47 split. Can the Minister confirm he will match that in percentage terms and stop trying to obfuscate? People are concerned that, under the environmental programme in particular, the payment could be much more skewed than that. Will the Minister confirm that the Exchequer funding will be at least 45%? Why not make the decision now? Why put it off? He has to work on a multi-annual framework in any event.

Will the Minister confirm that the second payment of the single farm payment this year under the new multi-annual financial framework will be reduced by just under 5% due to the new MFF? Will the Minister confirm there will be a cap on payments per hectare in the single payment? Will he explain the position on variable greening versus flat greening? What justification can he give concerning his preference for variable greening?

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I am not sure how long I have to answer these questions. The Deputy has asked four or five questions that require detailed answers. Let me start with the last one.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I have to obey Standing Orders.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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We have had the debate on variable versus flat rate greening. My view on this, for which I campaigned at European level, is that a country should have the option for what is called variable greening. In my view, that will ensure all farmers will have the same incentive to implement the greening requirements.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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What? Can the Minister repeat that?

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Please allow the Minister to reply.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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It is not the first time the Deputy has heard it.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Is the Minister saying the incentive is the same regardless of whether one is paying €150 or €400?

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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It is the same percentage incentive.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister did not say that the first time. What is the percentage?

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Ó Cuív will have another chance to speak.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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If the Deputy wants to keep talking we will run out of time, but if he wants to listen to the answer I will give it to him.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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What is the percentage?

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I will call Deputy Ó Cuív again.

Photo of Tom HayesTom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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That is six questions.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The European Commission refers to what is called a 30:30 greening obligation on farmers. That means that 30% of pillar 2 moneys will be guaranteed to be spent on environmental schemes, and 30% of a farmer's payment will be withheld unless he or she passes the greening criteria. If somebody is on €400 or €500 per hectare versus someone on €150 per hectare, one needs the incentive for the person on a higher payment to ensure they implement the greening criteria. We have tried to simplify this for farmers whereby 30% of their payment will be withheld unless they pass the greening criteria. That is what I mean when I say that the incentive must be the same. Otherwise people on higher payments will not have the same incentive to abide by the greening criteria. I do not think that would be a sensible policy perspective.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I take it that the Minister will not give any more information on pillar 2 funding. He is getting a lot of trouble from his colleague, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. Can the Minister confirm that the second payment under the single farm payment this year will face a 5% cut due to amendments in the MFF? Perhaps he can tell farmers whether that is correct.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Farmers know the consequences of the MFF, as we have been very upfront and transparent about it. The Deputy is repeating negative messages to try to upset people. The MFF negotiations were a significant success. We limited the reductions in direct payments to about 3%. Two years ago, people were talking about reductions of 30%, so the Taoiseach did a great job in protecting Common Agricultural Policy money and forming alliances with other countries, particularly France, to limit the losses. There is some loss, however, and farmers know that. We have been open and transparent about it. I cannot give figures on pillar 2.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Is there a 5% cut?

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I cannot give figures on pillar 2 because we have not yet decided on that. It is not my decision alone. It is my decision along with the Minister for Finance, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and their Departments. We need to put expenditure in place for the next three years and I need an expenditure commitment for the next seven years. I assure the Deputy that I will be fighting hard, as I always do, for agriculture, farmers and the agrifood business to ensure we put as much public money as we can into those areas, both from Europe and the Exchequer. As the economy starts to grow, I want to ensure we can increase funding for a sector that is giving far more than it is taking from the economy. Until those decisions are finalised, I cannot give the Deputy a figure.